GUN I need to apply for a BATF Class 3 to get 2 new items. anyone ever done this?

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by tragicher0, Nov 13, 2007.

  1. tragicher0

    tragicher0 Before I couldn't even spell DBA, now I are one OT Supporter

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    I am planning on purchasing an M4 Commando and a silencer for my p22.

    My brother already went thru this process, but he was ex-leo and was expedited. I hold an AZ CCW permit with a clean record.

    Anyone out there know anything else about getting a Class 3? I have already set aside the ~3k for the weapon, silencer, and tax stamps, I just need to get off my ass and head down to the FFL Class 3 store.
     
  2. david_4x4

    david_4x4 New Member

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    Well I can tell you one thing, you obviously need to research stuff a lot more.

    Unless you plan on becoming an FFL/SOT dealer with a post sample LEO demo letter, you're not buying an "M4 Commando" for $3k. Even then that would be a rip off. And your brother didnt get expedited, he may have gotten a signature easier, but everyone follows the same rules.

    If you're not becomming a dealer, You need about $10k more dollars maybe even $15k depending on what exactly you want. Then you pay a $200 transfer tax (or 2 transfer taxes if being purchased from a form 4), CLEO signoff on your Form 4, 2 fingerprint cards, 2 passport photos. Or create a trust, skip the sigh off, prints, and photos, pay $200 tax.

    Silencers follow same rules.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2007
  3. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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    Good luck, I've got a friend who had his SOT a few years ago. Before they sign you off they will come pay you a visit, sit through a 2-3hr interview to determine whether they should let you have it or not. I highly doubt they will give you one just so you can buy and build NFA items for your personal collection.
     
  4. david_4x4

    david_4x4 New Member

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    My dealer buddies have been lucky they havent had any visits. BUt the ATF really doesnt fuck around with Post Samples these days.

    Especially when some guy or reenactor who happens to be a dealer and wants a $1200 MG42 to play with, he better be buddy buddy with his CLEO on that post sample letter...
     
  5. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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    Some of the guys I shoot with keep trying to talk a dealer friend into building up another 1919 and some various other shit. We built him a 3-pin Krink a couple months ago but I think he's probably doing the right thing not wanting to build the 1919. That's just asking for trouble.
     
  6. david_4x4

    david_4x4 New Member

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    I can understand building stuff. Because then it doesnt require any demo letter to build.

    But heads kinda rise when you need to transfer that 1919 to your friend on his LEO demo letter. The ATF isnt dumb and may question what police force would need a 1919 demo let alone purchase one...
     
  7. one66stang

    one66stang Haters.com

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    david


    you have any links with info involving the "create a trust, pay $200 tax" way
     
  8. tragicher0

    tragicher0 Before I couldn't even spell DBA, now I are one OT Supporter

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    the m4 I am looking at is not full auto, just a short barrel. its ~2k
     
  9. Pineapple Devil

    Pineapple Devil beat it!

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    does it have 3round burst?
     
  10. Dsking85

    Dsking85 New Member

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    that's pricey for an SBR. just build one yourself.
     
  11. david_4x4

    david_4x4 New Member

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    Here's a 40 page thread with some good info:
    http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=199942

    Basically you just create a revocable living trust using yourself as trustee. Fill out a Form 4 as the trust purchasing the gun, include a $200 tax check and I believe you need to cert. of trust and maybe some other thing depending on the laws of your state and trusts.

    Or one can incorporate and do the same things as a trust with the same benefits.

    PLus side to both of these methods is you have list more than one person involved ie: your wife etc so they can be allowed possession etc.
     
  12. Pineapple Devil

    Pineapple Devil beat it!

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    :werd: and i dont think its even a real m4. i'm thinking its a sbr ar15
     
  13. david_4x4

    david_4x4 New Member

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    Yeah he's talking about buying an SBR.
     
  14. KNYTE

    KNYTE I'm Not Kidding.

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    Going through the ungodly hassle of Class 3 to get an SBR seems somewhat silly to me.
     
  15. david_4x4

    david_4x4 New Member

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    It's only a hassle if you want it to be.

    Personally I think the SBR/SBS thing is kinda silly. But I dont get to make the laws.
     
  16. tragicher0

    tragicher0 Before I couldn't even spell DBA, now I are one OT Supporter

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    I will need the class 3 because its SBR correct?
     
  17. david_4x4

    david_4x4 New Member

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    You dont need a license, but because it is an SBR you do have to fill out appropriate paperwork and be approved for purchase and ownership.

    All you have to do is find the item you want. If the item is out of state, locate a dealer in the state in which you live. If the item is being sold privately out of state. The item will be on a Form 4. You pay the original seller the price and usually the $200 tax to transfer the item from a Form 4 to a Form 3 to their dealer. From their dealer it goes Form 3 to your dealer. At this time he'll have you fill out 2 identical Form 4s. On this you fill out your general info, attach a passport photo to each form, and have your CLEO sign the forms. You will also include 2 fingerprint cards and a $200 check or money order for the tax. Mail to the ATF, wait 3-6 weeks for the item to transfer to your name and then you can pick it up.

    If the ietm is in state and being sold privately, you can do Form 4 to Form 4 privately without a dealer but must follow Form 4 layout.

    Or if the item is availible from an in state dealer, all you have to worry about is filling out your Form 4s, CLEO signature, finger prints, passport photos, and a $200 tax.

    Of course all of this depends on local and state laws.
     
  18. Dsking85

    Dsking85 New Member

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    you can go ahead and buy any SBR upper you want, you just can't put it on your lower until it is registered as an SBR lower. you could build one for under a grand easy not counting the $200 tax.
     
  19. david_4x4

    david_4x4 New Member

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    It would be wise to keep said lower and upper separate if he does build one.
     
  20. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    :werd:

    Constructive possession ftl.

    Thats why when I get my krink kit, I'm not going to have any bulgie side folder receivers untill I live in a free state and do all the paper work.
     
  21. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    Stop calling it Class III, and you'll avoid the confusion you're causing in this thread.

    The item is an NFA item, or a Class III item. It is not a Class III. Stop calling a tax stamp a "Class III" anything. It is a tax. It's not a permit, it's not a license, it's just a tax. You get a stamp to prove the tax was paid, just like on tobacco in some states.

    If you'll adjust your terminology, you'll confuse less people and get better answers to your questions.

    If you go to your local Class III/NFA dealer (a "Class III" license is just a Special Occupation Tax, or SOT, paid in addition to a normal FFL- Federal Firearms License. Yet more taxes), you'll be able to find out more about your local Chief Law Enforcement Officers (CLEO's), and whether or not they readily sign off on ATF forms. They may also be able to help you set up a revocable living trust or corporation for the purpose of purchasing NFA items. They would be able to help you figure out if this is a better option for you (it probably is). They would also help you figure out prices on NFA items, like suppressors.

    Typically, an SBR shouldn't cost any more to purchase or build than any other rifle of normal length. Silencers are very variable in their costs, but .22 suppressors are going to be the cheapest.
     
  22. Painkiller

    Painkiller Sometimes remembering is better than forgetting

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    haha after a while 2000 doesn't seem like anything. :o
     
  23. TwistedMind

    TwistedMind New Member

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    the store should help you with paperwork.

    Im only posting to say bullshit on your brother getting expedited. Leo, retired Leo, military, president of the United States it dosn't matter everyones papers go in the same pile.
     
  24. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    Is this really just a tax? I mean if you can legally own the gun in the first place, what else do they really want to know except did you check clear?
     
  25. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    It really is just a tax. The background check that accompanies INDIVIDUAL ownership of an NFA item is required in order for the IRS to cash your check. If you file paperwork as a corporation or trust, you forgo the long background check, fingerprints, and passport photos. I would imagine that they would still do a background check on any officers listed in the corporation, as well as any executors of the trust. I guess. I don't really care who buys what guns, though. I don't believe in background checks. If you can't trust a man with a firearm, then you can't trust him with his own freedom. Lock him up for life. Otherwise, let him defend himself. I already assume that every person I meet is concealing a firearm. It saves time, because I don't have to look for it. I just pretend its already there, and focus on other things.
     

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