GUN i HUMBLY ask your non-smartass opinons, seriously!

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by hsracer201, Sep 6, 2008.

  1. hsracer201

    hsracer201 New Member

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    i ain't a newb to guns. by any means. but this one has me stumped and MAD! :eek3:

    i got a super black hawk a few weeks ago and picked up a bushnell 3200 series 2x6x32 optic for it. it is not high end like IOR or NF or S&B, but it'll work on a pisol, i hope.

    i will spare ya'll the long story and go for the short story...

    i can only get a 6" group at 50 yards with it. GRANTED! i do NOT have a dedicated pistol rest so i am improvising with a sandbag under the barrel. i am not a really steady shot to begin with, so that just makes it worse. i have only shot 1 box of wwb through it (if someone kinda locall wants to sight this beast in for me, let me know) it kicks like a mother fucking mule on crack cocaine!

    so....before i get ridicule for:

    only shooting 1 box of shells: wallmart is the ONLY supplier i have
    that was 1.

    2. shooting like a bitch. yes, i do flinch a little. who owns a .44 that doesn't?

    3. will changing loads and brands really help that much?

    4. grips? i hear the stock grips suck. hogue or pacquemier(sp?) or hogue

    i know that is a lot of questions in 1, but can anyone help? yes, i realize a .44 is :greddy: deer hunting.
     
  2. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    Honestly 6" groups at 50 yards is probably not all that bad with wwb. Understand wwb is plinking ammo and not known for it's accuracy. Which ammo is accurate with that gun will have to be determined by trial and error.

    Honest expectations for shooting that pistol off of bags with factory ammo is 4" I would say (10 shot group) at 50 yards.

    The trigger maybe a factor, even if your shooting in single action. After a few shots you might be becoming recoil shy and finiching. It might just be a very difficult gun to shoot for groups.

    Alternatively maybe you could get 10 4" targets. Shoot each one with one shot. I would set one up, fire one shot at it. Go check the target. Give yourself time to recover. Shoot another target and repeat. If you can get all 10 shots within a 4" circle I would say it is a true 4" gun.
     
  3. GarandBobcat

    GarandBobcat New Member

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    Also, having the bag under the barrel might be part of it. That could be messing with the barrel's harmonics...

    Would it be possible to put the bag under the frame? That might help, if it's possible.
     
  4. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    I was taught to shoot with the bags under my wrists and not contacting any part of the gun itself....I don't know if thats right or wrong but....
     
  5. GarandBobcat

    GarandBobcat New Member

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    I've heard this before, but I've never tried to bench-shoot a handgun. :dunno:

    I'd think under the wrists or under the grip might do it better than under the barrel, though.....
     
  6. JaimeZX

    JaimeZX Formerly of :Sep 2001: fame - Also: Sprout Crew OT Supporter

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    Also, don't try to *fight* the recoil on the SB. I have one and it's a blast to shoot; but the grip shape is designed to let it pivot in your hand. Let the muzzle flip up. This isn't a gun you shoot fast.


    Mine needs some TLC. I haven't shot it in so long because .44 mag is so damn expensive and I think it's been so long since I've oiled it that it's getting a teensy bit of surface rust. :wtc:
     
  7. TwistedMind

    TwistedMind New Member

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    2. I own a rageing bull .454 cassul and I don't flinch. :mamoru:
     
  8. TwistedMind

    TwistedMind New Member

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    no lies, then again I have never shot more than 1 box of ammunition at a time because its so fucking expensive. And that one box of ammo is enough to bruise the palm of my hand.

    Next time you're in south Tejas give me a shout ill let you finger her and put a few through her pipe.
     
  9. JaimeZX

    JaimeZX Formerly of :Sep 2001: fame - Also: Sprout Crew OT Supporter

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    I'm in central Tejas. Where you at?
     
  10. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    Technique is different for various people but generally when shooting off of bags with pistols you place your forearms and or wrists on the bags.

    If you really wanted to get stable go prone and shoot off of bags. This takes a little more skill as sight alignment is a little different when prone. Doesn't sound like it is different but you need to practice it. I see many many people who are otherwise pretty decent shooters junk it shooting prone.

    The revolver has some advantages shooting prone or otherwise resting the grip on a surface. That being that you don't have to worry about the shock/recoil affecting magazine feeding (never found this to be a problem w/ my guns). Secondly because of the high bore axis you can actually ground the gun and get completely stable.

    The hot shot icore guys when shooting out to 50 yards + even have special grips that are extended and flat on the bottom. They are set up to go prone.
     
  11. hsracer201

    hsracer201 New Member

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    sorry the late reply. i had to work all damn day and then go out to dinner and a movie. bangkock dangerous is pretty damn good, IMO, if you take it with a grain of salt that is.


    thanks for the replies, i'll quote a few here and there in a second.
     
  12. hsracer201

    hsracer201 New Member

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    i was near a dicks sporting goods tonight so i grabbed up some different ammo to try out. just to see if anything else shoots better.

    i got another box of wwb 240 gr jacketed soft point
    a box of american eagle 240 gr jacketed hollow points
    remington umc 180 gr jsp
    and a box of hornady 225 gr FTX

    i also decided to get serious about this so today i ordered this from midway...

    http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=356740&t=11082005

    hopefully this will eliminate virtually ALL of human error. hopefully.

    range reports will hopefully follow in about a week when i get the rest.

    i also ordered some rubber hogue grips today. they have finger groves, so perhaps that will help absorb some recoil, but i reckon it won't really matter with the new rest, right?

    ...and one final question. i have been told that the way the SBH's are made, you can take the scope off and on and it will return to zero due to the way the grooves are cut into the barrel for the scope rings. is there any truth to that? for bear hunting i do not want a scope, but for deer hunting i do. i would really like to not have to zero it back in every single time. i deer hunt in one state and bear hunt in another and the seasons overlap several times.

    you can see the grooves in this picture pretty clearly, just to clarify. ignore the red circle. that a debate on another forum as to whether or not it had a bisley grip. it doesn't.

    [​IMG]

    and this is the best group i have gotten at 50 yards. it is roughly 6 inches, perhaps a hair over. i don't know which way to move it. some high, some low, some right, some left. doh!

    [​IMG]

    and the ammo to tinker with.

    [​IMG]

    thank you all for your replies. i'll get this sorted out sooner or later. :)
     
  13. TwistedMind

    TwistedMind New Member

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    Just north of Corpus
     
  14. JaimeZX

    JaimeZX Formerly of :Sep 2001: fame - Also: Sprout Crew OT Supporter

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    Oh. I don't really get down that way. :o
     
  15. TwistedMind

    TwistedMind New Member

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    no worries im thinking about transfering to UTSA, if I do that might make a mini meet more agreeable to everyone.
     
  16. JaimeZX

    JaimeZX Formerly of :Sep 2001: fame - Also: Sprout Crew OT Supporter

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    That might be cool. Still about a 4-hour drive from ABI but I might swing it.
     
  17. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    Regarding removing and replacing scope and zero. I would think it would not hold zero, but you would have to shoot it to evaluate.

    There are certain mounts such as the arms and larue that claim to hold zero if you remove and replace the optics. These mounts are connected to the gun by throw levers. The tension of the throw levers are consistant thus the scope will hold zero if removed and replaced. Just looking at the scope rings you have I have a feeling that your zero will wander a bit. How much can vary each time the scope is removed.

    On my AR-15 I have one of those fancy larue mounts. I have varified that I can removed and replace it and it will have the same zero. Regardless I check the zero if given the chance. It's a confidence thing. If I know the zero is dead nuts going into a big match I can call shots with confidence.

    It is not uncommon when somebody junks a stage, gets some bad "C.H.S" (can't hit shit) they immediately go to a empty berm to check zero, check if the scope mount worked loose, clean the barrel, wave a dead chicken over the gun. It is a big confidence and ego hit when you miss important shots you need to make.

    I would say if your going out into the sticks I would want to know beyond a doubt that the gun is going to do it's part. (put a hole where you call it, if you do your part.)
     
  18. hsracer201

    hsracer201 New Member

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    i definitely see your point. the thing is, ruger claims the same thing about this pistol. :eek3:

    as long as i don't tinker with the rings on the scope, it is SUPPOSED to mount up exactly the same. :hsugh:

    i guess...no, i WILL, test it just to be sure, but i was hoping for a definite yes/no to save on ammo. that pile of ammo you saw pictured above was over $120. :eek4:

    we shall see. i'm gonna wait till the pistol rest gets here before i waste any more ammo.

    thanks again for the replies. :bowdown:
     
  19. phrozenlikwid

    phrozenlikwid New Member

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    The factory Ruger mounts aren't return to zero mounts. You will have to re-zero the gun if you take them off.

    This has been my experience on their rifles, and the pistols use the same mounting system.
     
  20. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    Ito me it looks like the rings are attached to the rail by screws. The zero can shift just by the tension of these screws. Now if you upgraded the rings on the scope to arms or larue rings it might do a better job of holding zero if removed and replaced.

    It takes a lot of work to get the gun sighted in. To check zero should just take a few shots. When I go to a big match I try to shot at least 3 rounds to confirm my zero before we start.
     
  21. hsracer201

    hsracer201 New Member

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    ok, guys, a little bit of a reply, but i am confused as HELL over this.

    apologies, i posted this on another forum, so i know the smiles don't work and all, sorry. but what is your take on WWB shooting dead on and everything else shooting to the right??? actually, 2 threads in one.... hang tight, i am sorry.....

    i think this is just me... what do ya'll say on the whole shooting right thing?


    sorry for making 2 threads in one night. i wanted the "rest" thread to be seperate for searching purposes.
    i shot 4 different brands of ammo tonight through my super blackhawk. 6 rounds of each brand, all at 50 yards using the same rest. i zero'd the pistol in with WWB. you know, because it is cheap. :wink: each target has 6 holes. some look like less because the shots went through the same hole. the one target that i couldn't keep on the plate i took a pic of the box i was shooting at, just cuz.
    i can consistently get groups that look just like this one, which was my first group of the evening.
    [​IMG]
    excuse the attention whore in the photo. he's always into everything. :laugh: that group is 3.5". WWB 240 grain.
    that was my last shoot-n-see target. i had to move on to paper plates. :bucktooth:
    next, i moved on to a box of hornady.
    MUCH better groups, but WAY out of alignment. :wacko: FAR RIGHT!
    [​IMG]
    about 1 and 7/8" group. not bad, but why so FAR RIGHT? :CONFUS12: 225 grain FTX.
    next, remington. let me tell you that this stuff creates the largest fireball i have ever seen from a handgun! seriously a noticable difference from any other manf. when the gun goes BOOM my eyes almost go blind from the blast. crazy.
    [​IMG]
    i obviously pulled one shot. the other 5 have a group size of about 1.5" but they are all FAR RIGHT! 180 grain JSP.
    next, american eagle. this stuff is SERIOUSLY snappy. the recoil was obviously more noticable with their rounds. it didn't have the fireball the rem. did, but WOW. it has some bite.
    [​IMG]
    group size: 2". again, FAR RIGHT! 240 grain FMJ.
    wtf? i was beginning to think my scope got knocked off, so i went inside and got a chewed up shoot-n-see target and shot again with WWB. it gave the same group i initially got. :CONFUS12:
    why do the other brands shoot right, consistently? i realize it is normal to "flinch" and shoot to the right if you are shooting RH, but i am not flinching. i am not pulling the trigger, i am squeezing.
    what gives? :unsure:
    [/quote]
     
  22. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    maybe it's the wwb that shoots far left. But since you zero'ed with it your using it as a reference point. Then all the other ammo would be center but because of your sights your shooting it way right.

    Who noes
     
  23. JaimeZX

    JaimeZX Formerly of :Sep 2001: fame - Also: Sprout Crew OT Supporter

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  24. vwpilot

    vwpilot New Member

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    You need to shoot for groups and figure out the load that you're going to use, THEN sight the weapon in.

    It doesnt matter where all the other loads are going as long as the load you're going to use in the gun goes where its supposed to.

    Since they are all right except WWB, I would say that is the one giving you the issues. Shoot for groups, doesnt matter where they are, figure out the load that works the best and will give the performance you need (and if that means you're going to hunt, you need to use the load you'll hunt with) and then zero the scope for that load so that when you go out to hunt you know you'll hit what you're aiming at.
     
  25. hsracer201

    hsracer201 New Member

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    i settled with the remy 180 grains.

    the avg. group at 100 yards is 3". i am DAMN happy with that!

    at 150 yards it drops on avg. 11". i can live with that. i'm sure the 240 grain would be MUCH worse.

    of course, all of that is off of a precision rest, prone. when buck fever presents it'self it's gonna be tough to keep her steady, but if i do my part, so will she. :)

    thank you for all the good replies, ya'll got me on track. :)
     

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