MIL Hypothetical question: a matter of rank

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Liberal, Sep 5, 2005.

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  1. Liberal

    Liberal Metaphysical Entity

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    First, I'd like to say that this is one of the most interesting forums I've seen at OT. Educational, too. "A Tale of Two Military Prisons" is just one example. I have great respect for the military, but was turned down when I tried to join as a young man because of epilepsy I had as a child. I passed all the tests, but hit a brick wall on the medical questionaire.

    Anyway, here's my hypothetical:

    Newly commissioned Second Lieutenant Smith walks into the office of the Sergeant Major of the Army, and barks, "Sergeant, drop to the floor and give me twenty!"

    I realize that the Lieutenant outranks the Sergeant, but is there any weight given to the Sergeant's position at the top of the enlisted chain, years of service, and possible combat decorations?

    What would be the Sergeant Major's most likely response to the Lieutenant's order? What would happen to the Sergeant Major if he disobeyed the Lieutenant's order? Would he go to the brig for insubordination? Would the Lieutenant be seen as a bit over-the-top for issuing such an order?

    Sorry if this is a dumb question, and thanks in advance for the education.
     
  2. TheNewMonaro

    TheNewMonaro New Member

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    I certainly wouldn't want to try that...
     
  3. GochuBoy

    GochuBoy OT Supporter

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    Good question. I like it. Well, I remembered seeing a change of command for my company commander. The CSM (Command SGT Major [E-9]) was watching the Change of command and was directing both of the Captains (CPT O-3) with the ceremony. The CSM was like, "No no, you're doing it all wrong, its like this..." to the Captians and nobody said anything.

    If a 2LT (straight out of college w/little or no Enlisted experience) told a CSM to drop, I'd think the CSM would laugh at him, give him a :ugh: look, and probably walk away. Now, technically that is disrespect, and the 2LT could try to get him in trouble, but most likely that would get thrown out of the window and everyone would make fun of the 2LT. I know I would.
     
  4. TheNewMonaro

    TheNewMonaro New Member

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    His scenario involved the Sergeant Major of the Army. I certainly wouldn't want to fuck with the guy that can walk across and have a chat to Chief of Army about what the new guy is up to.
     
  5. DaRkPhAnToM

    DaRkPhAnToM FML OT Supporter

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    The Sergeant Major of the Army lives on the base i am stationed at :noes:
     
  6. Rodthrower18

    Rodthrower18 New Member

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    I imagine bad things would happen to the young 2Lt, and I would hope that he would have MUCH MORE respect for a man that holds such a position. A Sergeant Major is the pinnacle of the enlisted ranks, so just bc they dont have collar bling doesn't mean they cant make your life a living pile of stinking rotting shit. They get access to COs that power hungry 2Lts dream of for yrs. Just the other day a friend of a friend was promoted to Lt. Col.(I dont even know how to talk to the guy he's a fuckin half bird now, it was hard enough as a Major) and who was leading his ceremony and reading the promotion warrant ? A Master Guns, so these guys(Sgt. Majors, Master Guns', Master Sgts ) are not to be taken lightly.
     
  7. Liberal

    Liberal Metaphysical Entity

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    I was hoping for those sorts of responses. There's something to be said for that many years of exemplary service. It seems like their experience alone would be worth its weight in gold.
     
  8. RRTX

    RRTX New Member

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    In my experience, a 2LT trying to pull shit like that on anyone E-7 or up usually has a shit storm rain down upon them shortly thereafter. The best 2LT ass reaming I remember though was in an aviation unit that my best friend was in. I can't remember what he did exactly, but it involved trying to order a CWO-5 to do something and resulted in him getting reamed by a full bird later that day :rofl:
     
  9. Ranger-AO

    Ranger-AO I'm here for the Taliban party. Moderator

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    If I were the Sergeant Major of the Army, I would give him his 20 and then procede to make the rest of his day, and the rest of his short career, a living hell. There are plenty of officers who would jump at the chance to do the SMA a favor. :naughty:
     
  10. Capitals

    Capitals Guest

    The SGT Maj and the CO (Col.) of my Battalion act like they're fuckin drinkin buddies at work. When we got our new CO he did the smart thing and let the SGT Maj run the show while he took a back role for at least the first month he was here.

    I think the only thing you could do for a bootass 2nd LT in that situation is pray.
     
  11. evan2

    evan2 Guest

    you dont fuck with top dogs of the enlisted world.. a E9 is looked at as a god.. all offiers know this
    why because they are in control of thier key work force
    the enlisted core, they are the commanders tool to see morale trends and flow changes down the line

    any new lt would be stupid to try to fuck with anyone e7 and above..of course the resepect should be there but nowadyas most high ranked enlisted guys have degrees i nkow e6s with degrees in teh AF and some e5s that are close

    they opt to stay in the enlisted world.. and get nothing but respect
    ive worked with all sorts of officers in myjob and one of my favorites was a tech that became a LT, he didnt look old enough to have been a e6 but he was

    his knowledge of both sides of the house was amazing and he was an all around great guy, I was honored that he was in saudi with me during the war because it was time for me to re enlist and of course I asked him to do me the honors

    but basically I would of laughed at the lt and told him to learn about the military first
     
  12. TRN

    TRN Well-Known Member

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  13. SSG Schwartz

    SSG Schwartz New Member

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    2LT's should understand when to give orders. Even in the Army, you can't give someone an order because you feel like it. You can't give someone an order to disrespect or degrade the Soldier. Making an SMA do push-ups would probably qualify as disrespectful or degrading. Did the SMA fail his last PT test? If he did, he would not be SMA. What was it that the 2LT saw that the SMA needed to improve on his push-ups in order to properly preform his duties?

    Effective leaders don't just "drop" a Soldier, they correct a deficiency, or provide effective re-training.

    SSG Schwartz
     
  14. Blackfox

    Blackfox Active Member

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    new LT's know pretty much nothing at all about the Army and how shit really operates and ones that come to units and act like they know it all and are better then their nco's get chopped the hell down really quick. I've seen plenty of PSG's put new LT's in there place.
     
  15. brackac

    brackac Fuck all of this. OT Supporter

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    The CSM would either laugh at him, or introduce him to the Full Bird down the hall.
     
  16. WildBull

    WildBull Guest

    hell, I laughed at 2nd' LT's in the USMC when i was an e-3 .... I behaved around them but made fun of them when I was 10+ feet away.
     
  17. MrRyan

    MrRyan Gary Johnson 2016 OT Supporter

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    wtf post resurrection from the dead
     
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