howcome so many businesses

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by ds3, Oct 24, 2003.

  1. ds3

    ds3 Guest

    choose to use microsoft 2k or 2k3 server? If you want to be able to manage your network resources and still give your end users a familiar microsoft interface, why not atleast use novell?

    at least from my minimal experience with novell (and short term experience with w2k) i've found novell to be far superior.

    is it really just the marketing hype behind microsoft server?
     
  2. Zourn

    Zourn 16-bit Ninja OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    2,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    From all of the time I spent at school hanging out in places on the network that were "inaccessable to my account", I'd have to say Novell is pretty unsecure.
     
  3. kingtoad

    kingtoad OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2003
    Messages:
    55,924
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    The average user/company is about three years behind technology. Truth.
     
  4. HardTech

    HardTech hungry

    Joined:
    May 5, 2000
    Messages:
    28,103
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    NorCal
    I think there's also a lot more Microsoft certified people than there are Novell certified people
     
  5. kingtoad

    kingtoad OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2003
    Messages:
    55,924
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Novell used to be the hot stuff.
    It's not nearly as capable of what Microsoft is doing now. :dunno:
     
  6. CyberBullets

    CyberBullets I reach to the sky, and call out your name. If I c

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2001
    Messages:
    11,865
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    BC, Canada/Stockholm, Sweden
    i dunno, from the novell i know vs the windows 2003, it seems to be equil now...
    however imo zen is more powerful... but thats more of a biased opinion.
     
  7. relax

    relax Guest

    stfu noobs :mad:
     
  8. Astro

    Astro Code Monkey

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2000
    Messages:
    2,047
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cleveland Ohio
    I'm really really curious to see what happens with Novell adopting Linux for its platform. I got out of the networking industry right as Novell v5 was rolling out.

    I think I can say this relatively safely: I was on an employee tour of one of our sister companies (I should mention this was back when I did tech support for a then semi-large shipping company). The sister company had been bought out by our company and was very high tech. Even with their trucks (they had GPS tracking and two way paging all back around '96-ish). The director of IS went OFF on Novell (Novell v4 I believe). He went on about how he figures they spent a million dollars on getting Novell rolled out (buying hardware, software, and paying for man hours in support). And he turned to us and said, "You know why? So users can have a print button!" - I should mention they were not just a Novell/MS shop. I'm sure they had some AS400s and other gear there as well. I might also mention this guy's bonus was strictly based on the query times for their call center software - the lower the return time is from keypress to data being on the screen, the higher his bonus was.
     
  9. ds3

    ds3 Guest

    what does microsoft have that novell doesn't, besides being bundled with a lot of shitty microsoft service apps.
     
  10. EvilSS

    EvilSS New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Messages:
    5,104
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    STL
    Cost and complexity. Most companies can use W2k and AD to do everything they need a Network OS to do (File/Print/Authentication). I have not seen once company in five years as a consultant actually go to novell. Almost every company I deal with that has it is phasing it out. They just can't justify paying for two things that do the same thing when they can just pay for one.

    And the windows client is just compiled evil.
     
  11. Aimless

    Aimless Resident drunkey

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2001
    Messages:
    2,534
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Novell :ugh:

    I've largely seen it being phased out as well, and from my experience that's a good thing.
     
  12. CompiledMonkey

    CompiledMonkey New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2001
    Messages:
    8,528
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    It was just phased out of the department I'm in now. The professor that teaches a LAN class loves it, but he's moving on to Windows 2000 and 2003 now. I personally have never touched Novell, only RedHat and Windows. :dunno:
     
  13. ds3

    ds3 Guest

    I still don't understand as cost wise last i checked they end up being the same, seeing as how with either system you pay the same amount for the windows clients and there server and client access licences are competitively priced. As for being able to do more with windows and AD, novell can do all the same things with Novell Directory Services, plus NDS contains way more options for security. They both comply to the x.500 naming standards with this and offer the same things just differently. But from what ive seen in the labs, novell server have a much nicer interface (command line, although i believe MS is coming out with a CL or just recently did for there servers), also it seems much more reliable. In my MS W2k server labs something is always going wrong.

    As for security wise they both encounter the same problems when trying to secure access to network resources as well as provide network management, just through different protocols. I haven't heard of that many exploits lately in Novell 5 or 6, however Windows has had numerous security problems through the automatic deployment of IIS and the security problems RPC has gone through.

    They both offer the exact same things, but from my experience novell seems to offer more options for security settings and etc, and also seems to be a lot more stable.

    So what exactly is it you guys find windows offers that novell doesnt?
     
  14. Rob

    Rob OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2002
    Messages:
    88,626
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA

    AS400's frighten me. :ugh:
     
  15. CompiledMonkey

    CompiledMonkey New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2001
    Messages:
    8,528
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    We're hopefully getting our AS400 back. :big grin:
     
  16. Rob

    Rob OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2002
    Messages:
    88,626
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I was talking to the guy I worked with last summer and he said that just got a new one that cost about $100,000. :wtf: You know what you could buy with that? :ugh:
     
  17. CompiledMonkey

    CompiledMonkey New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2001
    Messages:
    8,528
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    Actually I do. :eek3: We just had our Dell rep come by and plan out clustering our Oracle instances. Setting up a SAN (CX 200 I believe) and two nodes (dual Xeons) connected with fibre ($800/port on the switch) is quite expensive.
     
  18. Rob

    Rob OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2002
    Messages:
    88,626
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    You know how many pounds of gummy worms you could buy with that?
     
  19. CompiledMonkey

    CompiledMonkey New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2001
    Messages:
    8,528
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    I couldn't imagine. :eek3:
     
  20. ds3

    ds3 Guest

    in the high end market youd can go way beyong those prices. I believe a book i was studying said its possible to buy cisco route/switch equipment that could cost upwards of $100,000. My uncle whos working in management on a big government project right now said they were buying some IBM mainframes (2) for just over a million (canadian) each.
     
  21. EvilSS

    EvilSS New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Messages:
    5,104
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    STL
    Part of the cost is from 2 sets of admins. Face it, any large deployment is going to have Windows servers doing some role, so why add Novell on top of it and have to hire a novell admin (or 2 or 3..) when you can do all that they need to do with AD. Plus you end up buying novell and windows versions of some applications (backup for example), and you have the manhours for that. Plus you have to install a Novell client on the PCs most of the time to take advantage of the more advanced features. And the Novell client is not known for being a nice app.

    Bottom line is that while the up front cost is the same, the back end costs are highter, and it adds a layer of complexity that most companies don't need.
     
  22. 5Gen_Prelude

    5Gen_Prelude There might not be an "I" in the word "Team", but

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2000
    Messages:
    14,519
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, CANADA
    Why not go to *nix then? I mean the number one reason why companies do what they do is because everyone else does it. Do you know why the 80's went with VHS instead of Beta? It's sure not because it's a superior format!
     
  23. Dommi

    Dommi Guest

    point and click over typing
     
  24. 5Gen_Prelude

    5Gen_Prelude There might not be an "I" in the word "Team", but

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2000
    Messages:
    14,519
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, CANADA
    You're back!
     
  25. EvilSS

    EvilSS New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Messages:
    5,104
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    STL
    At the enterprise level, Linux is viewed as a toy by most companies. And again, you have to hire people who know it, on top of your windows staff (and don't even tell me you can get rid of windows completely. Tell the sales department they are going to linux on their laptops and see what happens!)

    Plus it is not free at that level. Most solid distro's charge for support, and enterprise class software is often commercial.
     

Share This Page