How to convert HFS+ to NTFS

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by MSF, Jun 3, 2008.

  1. MSF

    MSF New Member

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    I've got an external hard drive that i formatted to HFS+ using transmac so that I could store large files on that would be recognized by my xbox. However, I don't need it for this purpose anymore. How do I get winxp to recognize the drive so that I can format it into NTFS?

    TIA
     
  2. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Right-click on "My Computer" and choose the "Manage..." option from the context menu. The "Computer Management Console" will open; click on the "Disk Management" item in the tree. The disk you plugged in will probably shown up as a Foreign disk, and you'll need to right-click on it to import it; either that, or it will show up as completely empty. Either way, once it doesn't have a warning sign next to the disk, you can create a partition on it and then format it in NTFS -- though it's probably better to do FAT32 instead, because that way OSX will be able to read it too.

    EDIT: If you decide to do FAT32, you'll probably have to specify a larger sector size (> 4 kilobytes) in order to get the whole disk covered by a single partition, since FAT32 is old and wasn't really designed for the monster disks we have nowadays. That's not really a big deal though, you'll just need to defrag the disk from time to time to make sure you're not wasting a lot of sectors storing tiny file fragments.
     
  3. MSF

    MSF New Member

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    Thanks man, that did it.

    Any major difference between quick format and regular format? This is going to take like two days at this pace. It's a 500gb.
     
  4. Clarity

    Clarity New Member

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    A quick format should be suitable, and will save a ton of time.
     
  5. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Full format is a good idea, but quick format will get the job done. Rule of thumb is, one in five reformats should be a full format, just to make sure data shadows don't pile on top of each other and start making 1's look like 0's and vice-versa.

    EDIT: Quick format is the same as what Apple calls "Initialize".
     
  6. EkriirkE

    EkriirkE Zika Xenu OT Supporter

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    :ugh:
     
  7. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    reason number 2,457,234,545 why you're a fucking moron.
     
  8. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    It's okay, I don't expect you to understand.

    EDIT: But I can't help myself, so I'll explain anyway.

    There is no such thing as a digital recording; data might be represented by patterns of 1's and 0's instead of analog waveforms, but those 1's and 0's are still stored in an analog format -- all that's accomplished by using the 1's and 0's instead of analog waveforms is that the 1's and 0's are more reliable to read, and more tolerant of errors during writing.

    If a 1 comes out more like a .75 instead, the reading equipment can still assume that it was supposed to be a 1 all along, and the integrity of the data is preserved. But as data gets written and overwritten, the medium can develop a propensity to store a 1 more easily than a 0, or vice versa -- that called a magnetic shadow, and it's roughly the equivalent of burn-in on an old TV screen.

    Doing a full format of a hard disk replaces all of the existing data with 0's, which while it doesn't completely remove any shadows that exist, it at least smooths them out, making it less likely that a shadow will influence the recording of future data to the point that a 0 gets read as a 1, or vice versa.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2008
  9. crontab

    crontab (uid = 0)

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    W H A T I N T H E F L Y I N G F U C K ? ? ? ? ? ? ! ? !?!
     
  10. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    first let me say that you're full of shit. regardless, let me poke a big-ass-hole in your logic:

    by writing all zeros you would create a "shadow" that would influence the recording of future data to the point that a 1 gets read as a 0".

    of course that is false. the entire concept of a "shadow" affecting data integrity is simply bogus.
     
  11. EkriirkE

    EkriirkE Zika Xenu OT Supporter

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    and by that logic, you should never delete files; because if you do then whatever replaces that file will be corrupt due to the magnetic shadow. Thus, when you have too many files on your drive to delete, to avoid corruption you should do a full format when you run out of space instead.
     
  12. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Not so long as the shadows aren't strong enough. The problem comes when rewritten data coincidentally has a few 1's or 0's in the same places, and every time the data gets replaced, the shadows get reinforced.

    Anyway, what you're talking about is called Secure Deletion"; it's usually done on disks containing classified information. A program writes all 0's on the disk, then all 1's, usually about 3 or 4 times, to dilute the data shadows to the point that special equipment can't read the shadows to reconstruct the original data. You can get programs that will do the same thing every time you delete a file (I think one is called "File Shredder"), and yes, it does help prevent corruption of future data as well as preventing imaginary Chinese hackers from reading your old email.
     
  13. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    If you've seriously never heard this, then I refuse to believe you actually work in IT. :gtfo:
     
  14. EkriirkE

    EkriirkE Zika Xenu OT Supporter

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    now I do not deny the existence of shadow bits, but i can't believe you believe that they (can) have such strength to influence the data reading. Just imagine a swap file or partition: if that were true everyone would be crashing left and right due to corrupt memory as such a thing can be very intensive on your disk with basically random data written to the same area many many times for the life of the drive.

    Which is also why people are bashing your ideas on a flash drive for swap space.
     
  15. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    1. RAM doesn't operate the same as FLASH or magnetic media. There is no such thing as magnetic or electrostatic shadowing in RAM.

    2. Magnetic shadowing takes a long time to build up; it's not like if you overwrite a file a couple of times, you've destroyed the medium. However, I'm sure you've used an old hard drive at some point in time, and kept getting corrupted files on it even though CHKDSK turned up no errors, even on a surface scan. That's because the surface scan just checks to see if the data can be read reliably, not whether the data that's being read is the data that was originally written. That's what magnetic shadowing does, if you let it get strong enough.

    3. People are bashing my idea to use a CF card for my pagefile because that's what people on OffTopic do. OT exists for people to shit on each other, and I'm stupid enough to keep expecting anything else than that.
     
  16. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    no where did he say ram. Let me quote him:

    he is talking about a SWAP partition. That exists on the hard drive.


    I have never had a problem with a drive until it dies. Generally if it's acting up, I'll run seatools and it'll be defective.

    it's a bad idea because:

    1) It contradicts your theory that you shouldn't have a page file. That contradiction isn't so bad because your theory was wrong, anyway. But the point is that you magically think you can have it both ways and not have a paradox... yet we do have a paradox.

    2) Flash memory has a very limited number of write cycles. This is between 10,000-100,000 writes. a page file gets written to EXTREMELY often. It will kill your flash drive.
     
  17. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    1. Oops, I misread what he said. Fortunately, data in a pagefile is rarely consistent from one session to the next, whereas other, "persistent" files, will often get re-written in the exact same place on the drive. If there isn't enough free space after the end of the file to hold the added data, the extra file fragments will go somewhere else. But the problem still remains that the beginning of a file is statistically the oldest and least-modified part of the file, but when it gets edited and saved, the entire file will get rewritten onto the disk, which will reinforce the bit patterns already in place in the sectors that the file already occupies.

    (I could mention that this is yet another reason to defrag often, to keep shadows from forming in the way described above, but we already had that argument recently.)

    2. Magnetic shadowing is more of a problem in servers, where the disk can be in operation for a lot longer than desktop drives are, but I've definitely seen a couple of desktop HDDs that kept corrupting data until I did a DoD wipe on them (4 sweeps of all 0's, 3 sweeps of all 1's, and 1 sweep of alternating 1's and 0's).

    3. I already admitted I understand why pagefiles are useful even when there's enough RAM to do without one. Let it go.

    4. We'll see how long the CF card lasts. Even if the pagefile gets hit constantly, and even if the pagefile appears to be one contiguous file, the embedded memory controller in the CF card will distribute the writes to avoid wearing out one section of the FLASH faster than the others, and it will translate the sector numbers on incoming read requests to compensate for that. Besides, the way my machine is set up, probably the only thing the pagefile will ever store is blank memory pages, so the actual amount of writing should be minimal.
     
  18. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    a defrag is no diff than a bunch of re-writes, so buy your orginal explaination (although flawed) would indicated that a defrag would make the "shadow" situation worse.

    of course it's a moot point because there is no practical "shadow" problem, to begin with.

    The point is that you've set up your own flawed logic, and make paradoxical claims to the contray without seeing the conflict. It's quite comical :rofl:

    Prior to doing what I do, I ran a consulting/hosting business. It was great because it allowed me to go to school and make money on a non-traditional schedule. At the height of my greatest success in that business, I was responsible for 74 dedicated servers. I did this for 4 years, and never had an issue dispite these boxes being heavily trafficed. This is on top of never having this problem in any of my desktops that see 16+ hour usage every day. I also haven't done a "full" format in years. I always do "quick" formats.

    okay.

    this is where you contradict yourself again. You made a point in #3 to admit that a pagefile is useful. However, if all it's doing is storing a blank memory page then it's not doing anything, and therefore is not benefitial. The truth of the matter is that the pagefile IS useful. I have 3GB of memory on the machine I'm currently using. The MOST I've ever actually had commited at any given time is about 2.25GB... Yet my pagefile has seen usage of over a gig.
     
  19. crontab

    crontab (uid = 0)

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    I've heard of it, understand it, worked with e-forensic's to retrieve data at my old place. You on the other hand continue to spew all this star trek sci-fi bullshit. Other sci-fi mumbo jumbo

    - keyboard wiring "matrices" becoming misaligned firing off multiple characters at a time, reference: http://forums.offtopic.com/showthread.php?t=2560833
    - processors that are so fast radiate a green glow from EMF, reference: http://forums.offtopic.com/showthread.php?t=2747506
    - now this bullshit.

    You need to simply shut the fuck up. Or stay out of this sub-forum with your imaginary knowledge.
     

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