GUN Homeowner shoots, kills alleged intruder passed out on couch

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by TL1000RSquid, Jun 20, 2008.

  1. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    Homeowner shoots, kills alleged intruder passed out on couch
    http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_061908_news_intruder_shot_killed_.1cb4afa2.html
    04:07 PM PDT on Thursday, June 19, 2008

    By kgw.com Staff

    SUTHERLIN, Ore. – A homeowner shot and killed an alleged intruder who entered the unlocked home early Thursday and passed out on a couch inside, police said.

    A woman at the home near the intersection of First Avenue and Mardonna Way in Sutherlin, Ore. initially called 911 to report the intruder.

    Sutherlin police officers were dispatched to the address and arrived within 7 minutes of the original 911 call.

    However, as officers arrived, they learned that homeowner Keith Cramer had just called 911 saying he had shot the suspect and believed he was dead.

    Officers found Michael Smith dead on the couch in the living room. It appears that he was shot one time with a high powered hunting rifle.

    Investigators searched the residence and will work with the major crimes team to figure out exactly what happened. Authorities interviewed witnesses and the shooter, who they said is cooperating with the investigation.

    The District Attorney's Office was also working with authorities to see whether the shooting was justified.

    An autopsy was tentatively scheduled for Thursday afternoon.
    -----

    Does Oregon have castle doctrine? Doesn't sound to good.
     
  2. Fire Sauce

    Fire Sauce New Member

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    Probably some drunk dude who stumbled into the wrong house. :mamoru:
     
  3. Even in castle law states, I doubt shooting a sleeping person is going to fly.
     
  4. spankaveli

    spankaveli OT Supporter

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    bad shoot, for sure.
     
  5. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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    We do have CD, but it's still a fucking stupid idea to shoot someone who doesn't pose an immediate threat.
     
  6. [DWI]

    [DWI] Master of Nothing

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    Damn, I wonder if the guy just had his finger on the trigger and got a little shaky.

    Meathook off bang switch.

    I most certainly would have a firearm, but trained on him probably not, at the ready yes. Let the cops deal with waking him up.
     
  7. jeepilot

    jeepilot Banned

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    could have tried to wake him up, and then attacked him or something. Shooting a sleeping man is cold. one good time to actually call the police.
     
  8. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    damn that's fucked up.

    call the cops, and keep your muzzle on them, then let the cops deal with it... But don't fire if it's not a threat.
     
  9. Aequitas

    Aequitas If it keeps on raining, levee's going to break.

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    For all we know the guy could have woken up during the 7 minutes that the police took to get there.

    I can definitely see it happening where the guy drunkenly thinks he's passing out on his couch, gets woken up by unfamiliar voices and starts to get up. Guy that had a rifle trained on him the whole time decides it's time to fire. Either way, shitty situation.
     
  10. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    http://www.nrtoday.com/article/20080620/NEWS/251560783

    Husband was summoned from bar, shot intruder


    BY CHELSEA DUNCAN,
    SUTHERLIN — Police said the Mardonna Way resident who found a strange man passed out on her couch early Thursday morning left the house with her 8-year-old daughter and then returned with her husband, who reportedly went inside and shot the man.

    Christy Cramer, 33, called 911 around 3 a.m. after discovering an unknown man, later identified as 35-year-old Michael Shane Smith, on her couch, according to the Douglas County Sheriff’s Office.

    The woman grabbed her daughter and left the 215 Mardonna Way home, at some point calling 911 on a cordless phone, said Dwes Hutson, Sheriff’s Office spokesman. She got in her car and drove to a bar less than a mile away to pick up her husband, 34-year-old Keith Robert Cramer.

    “She had left the house unlocked because her husband was out,” Hutson said, adding that it wasn’t clear which unlocked entrance Smith used to get into the home.

    Once Christy Cramer had picked up her husband, they drove back to their home. As Sutherlin police responded to the initial 911 call, a dispatcher advised them that Keith Cramer had shot Smith and believed he was dead.

    Police arrived at the home within seven minutes of the original 911 call, according to a press release. They found Smith dead on the couch in the living room.

    “Apparently, the officers pulled up just after the shooting had happened,” Hutson said.

    Smith appeared to have been shot once with a high-powered hunting rifle.

    Citing the ongoing investigation, Hutson said he could not provide details on whether Smith was threatening the Cramers.

    “I’m not going to get into what transpired at that point,” Hutson said.

    No one answered the phone at the Cramer residence Thursday afternoon or this morning.

    Hutson said preliminary information indicates Smith had been living in Sutherlin for the past few weeks, but was from Alaska.

    Hutson said it appears the Cramers did not know Smith. Further details on the man were not available this morning.

    An autopsy was conducted on Smith Thursday, but information on the results was not available. His next of kin have been notified.

    Investigators have been interviewing those involved and processing the scene since early Thursday morning. Investigators with the OSP crime lab are also assisting.

    Hutson said no one has been charged at this time and no one is in custody. He said it is common for cases like this to be turned over to a grand jury, however.

    “It will ultimately be up to the District Attorney’s Office what course of action to take,” Hutson said.

    The Douglas County Major Crimes Team is assisting the Sutherlin Police Department with the investigation, led by the Oregon State Police.
     
  11. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    I love how its either a "assault weapon" or a "high-powered hunting rifle." I wonder what just a rifle is.
     
  12. I'm surprised they didn't call it a sniper rifle.
     
  13. Cannondale

    Cannondale OT Supporter

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    Deadly assault-rifle with the shoulder thing that goes up.
     
  14. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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    If I saw someone in my house asleep (assuming no family members are home), I'd just leave and call the cops. He's not going to hurt you when you're across the street at your neighbor's house. Having a few things stolen is much better than having to hold someone at gun point who's possibly on drugs. I guarantee you replacing a laptop or TV is going to be cheaper than hiring a lawyer.
     
  15. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    :werd:

    Thieves are scumbags who deserve to be shot but we don't even know if this guy was a thief and I rather not deal with legal bills, which he'll certainly be facing in this case.
     
  16. pimpofthenation

    pimpofthenation OT Supporter

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    yeah, I'm gonna have to say that was a bad choice as well. Dude is probably gonna get fucked.

    My little sister moved out to PA for work. She lives in the same apartment building as a coworker. Apparently, within the first month of moving there, she said that the coworker came home to find two kids in her apartment. One of them ran, but the other one was passed out on the couch. She called the cops and he got arrested.

    My sister went and bought a Mossberg Bantam that weekend
    <tearofpride>*sniff* </tearofpride>
     
  17. Liptonucf

    Liptonucf wee woo wee woo wee woo

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    couldnt agree more. Shooting someone for the sake of shooting seems kinda heartless irregardless of the CD. What if he was going into diabetic shock or some other weird thing and just broke into a house for help. If someone was passed out on my couch, my dog would probably be giving their face and ears a good tongue cleaning.
     
  18. pimpofthenation

    pimpofthenation OT Supporter

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    I know that myself, personally, I have stumbled home from the bar, and took a nice little siesta in somebody's gazebo. I'd hate to get shot just because I was sleeping it off somewhere.
     
  19. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned here for you ;)
     
  20. [DWI]

    [DWI] Master of Nothing

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    I agree easier to get out than deal with the whole thing.

    That being said, I'd hole up and wait for the cops. Only because if someone is on my sofa it means they are on the sofa in the room at the bottom the stairs and I have to get pretty close to them to leave. Stairs has a 180 degree bend in them. So I'd just wait for the cops, until I came down the stairs.

    Like you said if there is some else around especially if they can't be readily accounted for, the situation changes.
     
  21. Thunderbear

    Thunderbear Yggdrasil's Forester.

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    Hate to Monday morning quarterback, but I think I just would have buttstroked him in the teeth.

    Also, finding the corpse at rest on the couch does not equal it's having been there during the incident.
     
  22. pimpofthenation

    pimpofthenation OT Supporter

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    based on the "high powered hunting rifle" comment, I'm betting it's going to be pretty easy to figure out the angle that the bullet passed through the victim and through the couch.
     
  23. kellyclan

    kellyclan She only loves you when she's drunk.

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    Hope he's got a good story, cos it sounds bad so far.
     
  24. Thunderbear

    Thunderbear Yggdrasil's Forester.

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    I have a CZ52, two 9mms and a .45 that would all do the same thing... and would probably become "high powered assault weapons" in a media bumblefuck writeup. And either way, I don't really have a problem with him ventilating some dumb fuck passed out in his house, to be quite honest. I've been fucked up enough to hold on to the grass to keep from being flung off the earth, and I've never fucked up someone's stuff or ended up in someone else's property.
     

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