Home server .. what do I need?

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by NPH, May 27, 2005.

  1. NPH

    NPH Guest

    as far as software goes. I know I'll need a static IP and there are services that offer such services like planetdns.net, no-ip, etc..

    I'm trying to go with Windows because Apache sounds complicated and having a GUI is a plus for a beginner like myself.

    What else?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2005
  2. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    It's almost 99% sure to be against your AUP/TOS with your ISP. Don't do it.

    As for a static IP, the services you mention are NOT the same thing... Those are dynamic dns.
     
  3. DennyB

    DennyB New Member

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    Much depends on what server you want to set up..
    Fileserver? Webserver? Gameserver? ... ? Sounds like webserver, because you mentioned apache, right?

    Unix based systems give you much mor flexibility than wintendo does, but first of all you need to care about your physical capabilities.. You can"t set up an accessible, fast and working webserver with an ordinary DSL connection..
     
  4. NPH

    NPH Guest

    yeah.. webserver, maybe even a fileserver so a small number of people.
     
  5. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    wow, you're an idiot. If you like linux, fine... but WINDOWS provides better flexibility... Flexibility means the ability to do more, more easily...

    Ever heard of ASP? Linux can't run it well. And don't mention ChiliSoft... Horrible excuse.

    Ever heard of .Net? Linux can't run that... In any capacity.

    How about MS SQL? Linux can't run that... In any capacity.

    Now what about PHP, MySQL, Postgres, Urchin, Webstats, Analog, Perl, etc, etc.... Available on BOTH platforms.

    So, let's re-cap... Linux does some things. Windows does all things that Linux does, and more. Yeah, Windows is more flexible.
     
  6. cmsurfer

    cmsurfer ºllllllº

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    Why are you such a fucking asshole in every post you make? Besides a lot of the trolling I have seen in half of the threads you post in, you have nothing but bullshit to say and disagree with what everyone else posts.

    Maybe DennyB was wrong with what he said, but it does not give you the right to call him an idiot and I see you do this all the time in your posts.

    What the fuck is wrong with you???????????

    If I was a mod here, I would have banned your trolling ass ages ago...
     
  7. DennyB

    DennyB New Member

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    And you're kinda funny.
    Windows provides more flexibility over linux? That's the funniest thing I've heard for a long time...

    Flexibility has nothing to do with ease of use, but with more capabilities. You will NEVER have control over windows the same way that you have when using linux. You just need three clicks in win to make it do hundreds of things, but you have no control over it. Maybe that's what you want.

    And your points are wrong too. No I've never heard of .NET, I'm just a C# programmer for 3 years now. Ever heard of Mono? Linux can run ordinary ASP as well...
    What about stability? And what about performance? What about security? Ever heard hundreds of security lacks in IIS? No, I don't think so...
    Windows doesn't have a chance there... I read about new IIS exploits every week..

    How much money do you want to spend on a Windows Server version (2000 or 2003)? You can get a perfect unix system for free with more capabilities than windows will ever offer.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2005
  8. NPH

    NPH Guest

    I'm pretty good with computers, but I have zero linux experience. That's one of the reasons why I'm trying to stay away from it. I downloaded the live eval demo of Suse Linux and it was ok.. just didn't know what I was really doing. I don't understand why it has these different GNOME, etc.. things? Desktop themes?? :dunno:
     
  9. kingtoad

    kingtoad OT Supporter

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    If you don't have any linux experience, then you'll probably be better off using IIS. Creating a File server on windows is very easy and you shouldn't have any problems doing it. Trying to create one on linux for you would be a run around because you don't know anything about it.
     
  10. DennyB

    DennyB New Member

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    It's ok to use win as a home server. The point is that it's EASY and everybody can set up a win server. But when it comes to performance or advanced features it's useless. It's hard to get windows running on a P3 with 500Mhz. Look at the PS2, it has a 300 Mhz CPU and 64MB Ram. Could you imagine to play a ps2 game on win?

    That's the same for all build-in features. Windows tries to do everything, but in the end it does nothing properly. Its kernel comes with compiled drivers for thousand of devices, a configuration that runs everywhere and a GUI that can be used by EVERYBODY - That's what makes it so slow!

    I am using here windows myself and it's a great desktop system, so don't get me wrong. But you will never find it in a serious backbone evironment.. for good reason. But it's absolutely okay to use it as a home server!
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2005
  11. DennyB

    DennyB New Member

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    Yeah, me too. You're right.
    But in my opinion the major reason for this is money. Companies save lots of money by having cheap employees. And Win admins are much cheaper, because everybody who read some books can manage a windows system. So they save money for further education, etc. Or sometimes they use an already salaried employee (in some other area) to do this additional job.

    But when I spoke of "serious backbone environments" I didn't mean these medium scale business, but e.g. the internet or telcos...
     
  12. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    it's perfectly ethical... But that's not the point. Read your TOS/AUP... 99% of residential broadband providers have the policy that running servers is NOT okay.

    Think of it as a "discount". There is the "business" price, where running a server is legal... Then there is the "residential" price, where the provider sells you a product/service at a discounted price with certain restrictions -- that you will not run a server.

    Actually, there are MANY products that are licensed in this manner -- especially software, and some hardware discounts are applied in this way.

    But again, ethics has nothing to do with it. The law is the law -- regardless of your opinion on it.
     
  13. RyanL

    RyanL OT Supporter

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    Ignore the whole war going on in here and listen to this...

    Ideally you would probably run a server linux and with no gui so that you get the best performance.

    You should do what I did and learn it all on a windows install and if you get bored with that move on to linux. Learn one thing at a time trying to learn linux/unix and server related things at the same time would just be a pain in the ass.

    As far as software goes...
    VNC - www.tightvnc.com - will let you remotely connect to your server and work on it just like you were at it.
    php - www.php.org - really good language that I would encourage you to look into learning the basics of. If you google around you can find some really good tutorials on how to get it installed. Most website based software would need this, IE if you want a blog.
    mysql - www.mysql.com - might need it if you want a blog or other web based program/page thing.
    ftp server - www.warftp.org - this ftp server is supposed to be one of the best ftp daemons for windows

    For the most part I would say get a webserver, ftp server, and vnc going and then see what else you want from there. I would strongly recomend trying apache however. It took me a little longer to learn about the config file but once again google will lead the way to tutorials. If you are doing it just for fun its no big deal, but apache is definantly the industry standard right now, and runs on linux/windows so its when less thing to re learn if you ever decide to dive into linux.
     
  14. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    apache on windows sucks. Slow, and insecure. IIS is king on the windows platform.

    As for VNC... why? If you go with linux, SSH is the only way to go. For windows, Remote Desktop exists for a reason, ya know?
     
  15. RyanL

    RyanL OT Supporter

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    As far as the whole apache VS IIS do you have anything to back this up or is it all more flame?

    I included VNC because he didn't specify which version of windows he wanted to use, not all have it. More importantly while it can't be beaten for a local network connection its god aweful slow over the internet. Not to mention you have to be on a PC that has it where as VNC is any computer with a web browser and java.

    I didn't include SSH because he said that he didn't want to go linux and because he just begining.
     
  16. RyanL

    RyanL OT Supporter

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    Most of the TOS of blank claims to cover their asses and to have the ability disconnect someone. As long as you aren't doing anything illegal with your webserver they won't care. Just because you are violating a TOS doesn't mean that you are breaking the law, it means that the ISP has the right to disconnect you.

    Almost all ISPs block mail hosting now though, so you won't be able to run your own mail server.
     
  17. kingtoad

    kingtoad OT Supporter

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    :werd:

    Apache is a huge insecurity on Windows. There has been plenty of arguments of it here in C&P.
     
  18. Keyzs

    Keyzs OT Supporter

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    This is almost funny... The facts and a few opinions.

    planetdns.net, no-ip allow you to use a dynamic IPaddress to host server by updating the DNS records when the IP address changes.

    If you have residential DSL service there is a good chance it is against your AUP/TOS to run servers on your line. You can get around this using different ports, but its still against the policies and that is unethical unlike following the agreement that you made when you started the service... And violating a TOS that you agreed to is illegal (breach of contract but its true that most ISP's don't actively hunt down violators.) You CAN run low activity services easily on a DSL line, though the availability may not be as good as a T1 line etc. It will not be great for a file server, upload speeds are usually not that good.

    Windows and *nux machines can pretty much do the same thing. IF YOU KNOW HOW TO RUN THEM. It is incorrect to say one OS is more secure than another its the operator that makes the difference. A Linux box run by an idiot is much easier to crack than an Windows machine that is setup correctly. A unpatched Windows is a lot more insecure than a correctly setup Linux server. If your comfortable with Windows go for it, if your not comfortable with Linux stay away until you are.

    Running ASP on a Linux server is foolish, it will run like crap. ASP IS A MICROSOFT programming language!! In my opinion running Apache on Windows is also foolish, it is a port that just does not work well. All the .NET, MSSQL, MySQL, PHP arguments are all useless unless he is planning on using them.

    Its not funny that to most people that Windows is more flexible, MANY more users are experienced with it. And ability to use something makes it more flexible to that user. Linux is not worth a crap if you do not know how to use it, worse still it's insecure... Control over how something works, does not make it work better.

    The stability argument is CRAP!! I have MS servers that have hundreds of days on them along with my Linux boxes. If you realize that the patches for either software are for specific services and if they are not running then you do not need to worry about them. The money argument is also crap, if you have a machine already running 2000 pro then you do not need to spend a dime to use it as a server.

    It is also ridiculous to think there will be a measurable difference between Linux and Windows in everyday uses. What the hell kind of performance or you looking for off a DSL line anyways... And lets see you run a PS2 game on a Linux server, and who the hell cares about a PS2 game on a server??? Lets talk about running Federa with KDE 3 on a old P3 500 with 128 megs of ram and a couple gig drive, it sucks just like Windows does. (I tried to load SUSE 9 on an old machine that I ran W2k on for years and it complained the whole way about drive space...)

    MANY business run Windows servers as serious servers without a problem. Anyone who thinks Server 2003 is not a serious server OS is an IDIOT along with the person who thinks a Linux box cannot do the same. There is not 'GOOD REASON' not to use which ever fits the situation.
     
  19. kingtoad

    kingtoad OT Supporter

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    I think you've just repeated everything that has been said in this thread.
     
  20. DennyB

    DennyB New Member

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    You are right.. that's what I said before...
    But there're much more unqualified win admins out there than for linux :)

    ASP is not a microsoft programming language, because it's not a programming language at all, sorry :)
    I agree with you that running apache on win is foolish...

    I wasn't talking about a specific person but in general..
    Linux is much more flexible to somebody who knows what going on, because you can configure, control and log every little detail. In win you don't even know what it does behind its GUI.. Somebody who has never used a pc before will be much more flexible with win, because he doesn't need to know anything.. and that's the argument for AND against windows.

    Could you imagine that some people haven't got a win 2000/2003 machine?
    How much money do you pay for Win2003? How much for linux?


    Who talks about DSL lines or internet connections? That's irrelevant..
    The point is that you don't need a GUI when using linux. You can set up a server without this additional overhead. And as I said before, windows has thousands of drivers and services compiled in, not even optimized for different cpu's. How CAN that be faster? In linux you can choose what you want to be on your system..

    That's exactly the same I said before... sure it is a serious server system, but not in a really CRITICAL environment, because it has so much overhead..
     
  21. Ivy Mike

    Ivy Mike New Member

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    I recall an article in a previous issue of 2600 detailing how to run a mail server with blocked ports. Very informative and educational. ;)
     
  22. RyanL

    RyanL OT Supporter

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    Sorry off topic I know...

    Gotta love the 2600, do you recall what one it was? I have spring 2005 sitting here beside me...
     

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