Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Jago, Dec 29, 2003.
what exactly is the difference between them and what do you prefer for protection?
man black talons are scary looking
thanks. that black talon is . do all hollow points expand like that with the sharp edges?
and are EFMJ also called soft points?
the black talon had razor edges on its edges, to better cut through flesh and clothing. the ranger sxt doesn't, because surgeons complained about the edges cutting their gloves open during removal of the bullet and its fragments. otherwise, the two rounds are almost identical, with the black talon being slightly better, performancewise.
I think Black Talons are mostly negative hype. I really have a hard time believing that when you have a lead slug ripping through your soft tissues and organs, you're in more danger if the wound is a little more scratched up. I'm not even sure I buy the argument that surgeons get cut on them. I've retrieved fired talons and they don't seem any sharper than the edges of any other hollowpoint round I've ever used.
As for what I carry, it used to be exclusively Hydra-shoks, but now I carry 230-gr JHP handloads that give me about 1200 fps.
Winchester basically makes black talons for hunting now but they call them Platinum Tip Supremes.
you can get them in 41. 44, and 454. along with muzzleloader sabots and shotgun slugs
Yeah that's always set off my B.S. detector. Hollowpoints are not designed for super penetration. They're designed to flatten out and STOP penetrating, transferring more energy to the target, and the Black Talon has no armor piercing capabilities whatsoever.
Clean97GTI, no I've never removed anything at all from a body, let alone a bullet. I've retrieved Talons from loose sand - I shoot a few of every different bullet I use into sand to retrieve and compare. Maybe the sand dulled the points or something.
Anything and everything you've heard about Black Talons is hype (including a things mentioned in thread ). They are a JHP, plain and simple, Winchester has never proven "shredding" action makes a better stopper and real world results haven't shown it either.
As for JHP vs EFMJ, i'm still up in the air. i've been hearing good things and i expect that EFMJ will eventually be widespread, but for now i'm still using Golden Sabers and Gold Dots.
I agree with kellyclan. I have a fully expanded black talon here in my hand and the points/edges are no where near sharp enough to cut you. The doctors complained because it would snag and tear the thin latex gloves they were wearing which are their only protection agains blood borne diseases when digging a bullet out of someone.
I used to have an expanded Hydrashock and a Golden Saber (bad ass looking) but I can't find them any more. I used fully soaked phone books to fire the rounds into.
The one that liked the most was the Golden Saber. It appeared to expand to the largest diameter and didn't fragment as much as the others. That doesn't mean much since it was wet phone books and not gelatin but it gives you a rough idea of how it will perform.
As for current protection I use 165gr Cor-Bon (1150fps) in a Steyr M40.
how did the hydrashoks do in your test? i'm curious because a guy was telling me they had to be fired into liquid for it to expand. otherwise they won't.
black talons, and their replacement ranger SXT, in certain calibers, weights, and velocities, perform better than any other round out there. the specific one i'm talking about is the 127 gr. +P+ in 9mm. i think it's 127 gr. could be another weight, but i'm pretty sure that's the weight.
What kind of statement is that?
Honda Civics, in certain applications, pricepoints, and locations, perform better than any other car out there.
Black Talons were just another bullet and Hydra-shoks were the big name hot shit until the news media got wind of the name.
They did just fine. Fully expanded and the little post bent over to just like factory tests showed.
One reason the Black Talon and SXT perform well is that it is nose heavy. The copper jacket is much thicker at nose than it is at the base. This supposedly made it more stable in flight.
I heard that the only difference between the Talon and SXT was the color. The SXT didn't have the black coating on it. Other than that they were the same.