GUN HK's new Sub Compact

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Vermincelli, Mar 4, 2005.

  1. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    It's about time that Hk finally comes out with a Subbie.
    About the same size as the XD/Glock SCs and looks alot like an XD from the side.
    And of course it's an outrageous price of 930 bucks retail.

    I do like 2 things about it. It comes in a .357sig model and it has an ambi slide release. (also a decocker on the DA/SA model)

    On the DAO model though, there is no safety. It's just a longer trigger pull. I may have to try one out though.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. chaos24_7

    chaos24_7 New Member

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    thats pimp :bigthumb:
     
  3. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    Problem is, it's 500 bucks more than a comparable XD SC, no safeties. and less capacity.
     
  4. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    Why do you need a safety?
     
  5. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    You don't if the trigger is set up like a DA revolver (i.e. KelTec's)
    but I would prefer a safety it if it's similar to the XD and Glock triggers.
     
  6. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    Why? Are you not safe enough to NOT put your finger on the trigger?
     
  7. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    I have witnessed a few too many ADs when fellow officers, cadets and others have gone to holster their sidearms and catch the trigger on the holster itself. (usually it's the thumbbreak strap)

    Let's just say that when it comes to a weapon, I prefer to be overly cautious.
     
  8. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    I have never watched as it happened, all I got to see is the after effects. Glock halfway holstered, thumbreak strap curled into the triggerguard setting off the trigger as the pistol was pushed down. Bang. This is one of the reasons that more than a couple depts. had their weapons changed from the standard trigger pull to a heavier spring. Also the reason that Fobus recalled a complete design.

    I have done it myself once but it was with a 1911 so it didn't go off and it was during a felony stop. Went to use my cuffs and went to holster it in a rush. I pushed down and it wouldn't go in and found the snap was caught on the trigger. After that I have always made a mental note as I was holstering to make damn sure the strap was clear but shit happens.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2005
  9. oakie

    oakie my ninja.

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    seen it myself also... Kydex w/ thumb strap retention + striker fired gun = AD waiting to happen.

    i was at the range and an off duty cop was in the lane next to me, practicing holster drills (we talked for a bit, his cert was coming up so he thought he'd brush up).

    BAM!

    lucky for him it hit the ground and not his leg. needless to say i switched lanes. ;)



    oh yeah, and the P2000SK Sub-Kompakt has a traditional DAO hammer/trigger combo with a half-cock, resulting in a shortened DA pull at ~8lbs of pressure. much like the Glock with a NY trigger, but hammer operated. the system can be tuned to ~4.5lbs, though, upon request.

    i'd like a DA/SA P2000SK :naughty:
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2005
  10. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    The 8lb trigger would make it identical to the P11, so that would be fine.
     
  11. SS109

    SS109 3100 FPS OT Supporter

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    I prefer a positive safety too. And I like the partial cock that the H&K uses on their compacts, very handy.
     
  12. A96HondaAccordCoupeEX

    A96HondaAccordCoupeEX Silver Member

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  13. oakie

    oakie my ninja.

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    name an H&K handgun that currently MSRP's for less...

    even all of Sig's P series (sans P232, 239) MSRP for about the same.


    your dealer prcing will differ, though.
     
  14. soccaian

    soccaian New Member

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    except pre-owned sigs

    got mine for $460

    :naughty:
     
  15. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    So, the problem isn't the firearm firing itself, the problem is user error. If you're using a subcompact, you're not using a holster with a thumbreak, so there's nothing to catch the trigger on. Even then, you already KNOW about the problem, so if you had that happen to you, that would be negligent on your part. Most accidents caused with striker fired firearms have nothing to do with catching anything on anything. They have everything to do with fingers on triggers, especially while reholstering. Officers are not always the shining examples of range safety. NY put those triggers on their Glocks because officers kept claiming that the gun just went off. It doesn't just go off, you put your damn finger on the trigger, you self-control-lacking dummy.

    A positive safety is ONLY useful in a firearm that is carried cocked and locked, and even then, ONLY to keep the firearm from discharging from being dropped or struck on the hammer. Otherwise, external safeties are a crutch that cause accidents because people put all their trust into them, instead of actually learning how to properly handle a firearm.
     
  16. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    A positive safety is useful. If you don't think so, then I assume you haven't been in a situation where you have had to use your weapon. As for using a holster with a thumbreak, I prefer it even when carrying an SC due to retention and to secure the weapon. It was required in my dept. for both duty and backup.

    You can know of the problem but there are times when your focus is on something else. (ie a perp you have at gunpoint) It's true that most ADs are simple finger on trigger, but many ADs are also caused by objects other than a finger getting into a trigger guard. Two other situations that didn't involve a strap were one where the person was carrying mexican and as was putting the gun into his waistband, it discharged due to the friction on the side of the trigger against his belt edge. Second one was a person who carried an NAA Guardian in a pocket and the pen he had in his pocket got into the trigger guard. As he sat down, the pen was pushed against the trigger by his leg.
     
  17. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    Never said it was the Glock.
     
  18. Platinum_Thunder

    Platinum_Thunder Reliability for life and liberty

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    I concur. If you rely on a mechanical safety, you are not a safe gun user
     
  19. oakie

    oakie my ninja.

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    you must have less than 5 years as a cop.

    3 reasons... you assume you'll never have an AD, you call it a "negligent discharge" due to new training rules, and you assume people are blaming the gun for the AD.
     
  20. oakie

    oakie my ninja.

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    damn those unsafe 1911 shooters! :hsugh:
     
  21. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    How fucking true.
     
  22. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    That mean you will carry your new 1911 cocked with the safety off? :)
     
  23. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    Bah.
     
  24. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    It isn't that hard until SHTF and you then have to deal with adrenaline and tunnel vision. I have trained hundreds of cadets in proper handling but can never train them how to deal with how the body reacts in real situations or train them to deal with all the infinite possibilites that could happen.

    As for the bull about the weapon being an inanimate object(a solid piece)...It is a mechanism made up of many parts, pure and simple and in the real world, shit happens. The "unforseeable". A firearm is a contained explosion and with each explosion, there is stress that can and does cause damage and oftentimes cannot be detected during your average cleaning and inspection. How often do you take your gun all the way down and do a detailed inspection of each part for hairline cracks or wearing? How is your firing pin and spring?

    You are correct on the descriptions of both the Glock and the 1911 designs. As my examples on the 1st page showed, catching a strap inside the triggerguard and pushing down to holster the weapon set them off. The strap depressed the trigger safety and as the weapon was pushed down, the trigger was pushed back and the pistol fired. The difference between my personal experience and the ones that actually discharged was that I had my thumb safety on and my thumb on the back of the slide as I holstered it, so my hand was not depressing the grip safety. Those two factors kept it from discharging. If I was just doing practice then I would have probably felt that the gun was caught as I pushed down, but since I was in the middle of a felony stop, I was focused on the suspect and his passenger and did something I have done thousands of times, holster my weapon. Had it been another DA pistol, it may have gone off. Instead, the safeties did their job properly and prevented an AD.

    Because of my experiences, both personal and observed, I prefer to carry a weapon with manual safeties or at the least a DA revolver style trigger. (ie, a long heavy pull)
     
  25. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    Just get a safariland holster with the SLS hood, and learn how to use your pistol. NISMOTom covered AGAIN what i already said about the 1911 and the only time i'd use a manual safety. You people don't read.

    Basically, what it comes down to is that you don't consider yourself safe enough to handle a firearm when reholstering, so you rely on your firearm to be the safe one. If you can train yourself to engage the safety and disengage it upon holstering and unholstering, even in stressful situations, you can certainly train yourself to reholster the weapon in the proper manner. You're just making excuses for poor handling.
     

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