Help - advice on jobs - should I switch companies?

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by Coottie, Sep 19, 2007.

  1. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Had an interview today and they offered me a job. Some of you may remember, I recently (less than 2 months ago) accepted my first job since graduating so I'm torn on what I should do. Here are the facts:

    Current Employer:
    • Government contractor
    • I'm at the top of the pay grade for my current experience level. They said they can't bill the govt more so they can't pay me anymore yet.
    • Great people, great work environment, great location.
    • Doing web development in PHP framework, Oracle, JavaScript, etc
    • I'm already deeply involved with a new project ( I came on just as this was spinning up) and I've been very, very involved in the design of this new application NOT just solving simple, beginner type problems.
    • We're involved with a sector of the govt that is increasing in size and getting a lot of interest politically....meaning, my current job is probably VERY secure.
    • My leaving might actually hurt their chances for success on this new application because it's got a very tight deadline.
    • Leaving would likely fracture friendships I've now formed with some of the people.
    • Flex Hours - the core are from 9am to 3pm but the other 2 can be on either side and with lunch at my desk, I could go in at 7am and leave at 3.
    New Company
    • Approx 15% more money
    • People seem very nice, friendly and smart
    • Closer to my home
    • Office is not as swanky an my current digs. However, they have superior hardware (servers, workstations, etc)...I got just mediocre tech at current job.
    • Total Microsoft shop. I'll learn C#, .Net 2.0, SQL Server, etc.
    • Growing company - they've just landed 6 new clients and the needs of their customers are growing rapidly.
    • If the economy gets worse, this company will actually get very, very busy.
    • This company passed on me back in June but they were respectful when they passed. They simply wanted someone for less money but that person didn't work out.
    So I'm not yet down to comparing benefits but I will be soon.

    I'm not sure which job is actually better for my career. In fact, I think they both have strengths and weaknesses so I'm really torn.

    Anyways, given the above facts, would you change jobs?? If yes, would you think 1 month notice is sufficient??
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2007
  2. DAN513

    DAN513 OT Supporter

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    IMO it's hard to stay in a job knowing that no matter how much you bust your ass there's no potential for more money.
    Are the benefits the same? Any other benefits one offers that the other doesn't?
    How long has the new company been around? How long has their senior management been working there?
     
  3. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    :werd:
    This has been going through my mind since day one. However, the laid back, casual nature of the company is great.
    Haven't gotten down to the benefits comparison yet. I'm going to address that tomorrow evening.
    Well it's been around for awhile...not exactly sure how long but I think like 10 years or so.
    Since the beginning.
     
  4. HardTech

    HardTech hungry

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    the new place sounds like a great place to move up, whereas your current place sounds like a great place to stay the same level. You can't really go wrong with either choice, but if I were you, I'd jump ship, but only after completing the project.

    Ask the new company if that's possible
     
  5. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    The current project, at the current company, won't be done with coding till mid to late December. We're just finishing up the DB design, logging and email notifications portion. Next up is pseudo code review...then actual coding.

    After Dec we begin testing and go live Jan 31. That is....if the development goes very well and we are all saying that we're concerned that there are simply too many features to make it happen. It's honestly reminding me of a school project where you've simply got too much to do and not enough time to do it. Guess that's all too common in this field.

    The new company said 4 weeks notice is about all they are willing to wait. They understand my delima and I told them, I'm not about to leave any company in the lurch....that's just not my style. I said I won't do it to them and I won't do it to you....if I accept the offer. She understood but said they simply have too much going on to be able to wait for me till December.

    So I'm really torn.
     
  6. DAN513

    DAN513 OT Supporter

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    Honestly, giving a months notice, that's plenty of time for them to find someone comparable and for you to help get the new person into the swing of things. Seeing as they're not a new company and have little fi any turnover at the senior management level, then it sounds like a good move, assuming the benefits are the same or better.
     
  7. HardTech

    HardTech hungry

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    if I were in your shoes, i'd submit a month's notice, then do my best to find a suitable replacement. That lets them know that you actually give a damn, and you probably won't recommend some loser who doesn't know what he's doing.
     
  8. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Thanks Dan and HardTech. That's kind of the way I'm leaning also....in fact, I've actually spent a lot of time thinking about who I can get to replace me. I have some ideas but I'm not sure those ppl are available or would qualify....the job requires a secret level security clearance but the actual FBI interviewers said it was a top secret clearance. Everyone is confused lol.

    When I was looking for a job back in May - July, there were soo many .Net jobs it wasn't even funny while I've only seen 3 or 4 PHP jobs. So the new company seems like it's better but there are many intangibles to switching. I'd hate to change only to regret my choice later on down the line....but I guess that's the risk I take....cuz my balls aren't crystal. :)
     
  9. HardTech

    HardTech hungry

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    a job isn't a marriage... you can either look at it as a means to pay your bills or a stepping stone to a better one. My last company taught me the meaning of company loyalty when they almost fired me for submitting an expense report for mileage when I drove 9 hours for college recruiting.

    but I can also understand not wanting to leave a job. Right now my job sucks, but that's because I have to do about 1 years of work in about 2 weeks. Aside from that, my current company pretty much put me on the fast track to management and there is nothing that's stopping me from moving up. For that I'm grateful, but that doesn't mean I'm married.
     
  10. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Good point. In fact, my loyalty has more to do with the people that I directly interact with on a daily basis than the actual company I'm working for. I tend to be extremely loyal to my friends and sometimes those co-workers become great friends. But you're right...it's not a marriage and our friendships are in their beginning stages, but still they're really great ppl. Anyways, thanks for the reminder.
    Yeah I'm starting to realize that "moving up" with my current employer is really only possible when someone leaves. There's also all that funding stuff, i.e. congress, that causes many problems with getting more work for the company.

    I've been really thinking I should give my current employer the opportunity to match my current offer but based on what they told me when they hired me, it doesn't sound like they'll be able to match it....or even come up any. My boss is seriously one of the coolest bosses I've ever had and just an all round great guy. Seems kinda wrong to not give him at least the chance to match the offer.

    So I have to tell the new company yes or no by Friday which means if I want to give my boss the opportunity, I'll need to tell him tomorrow. Hmm...what do you guys think?? Give the boss the opportunity or not??
     
  11. Sexual Vanilla

    Sexual Vanilla New Member

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    Both routes seem to be excellent choices, which makes this decision a hard one. I think ultimately it comes down to where you will enjoy your job the most.

    Sorry I couldn't be more help...just my 2 cents. You seem like a nice guy, so best of luck to you.
     
  12. HardTech

    HardTech hungry

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    You can always see if your boss will at least entertain the offer. Discuss it fully with your boss if he's as cool as he sounds. I know when I quit my last company, my male boss (a real cool guy) gave me a lot of advice. He really liked me as a worker, but he realized that his job wasn't to keep me at the company... his job was to make me the best person I can be, and there was a really big problem in my personal life that needed attention. He knew there was nothing he could do to keep me at the company, so he gave me a lot of advice on what I should do and all of it entailed leaving the company.

    Good luck. To you, it sounds like a win-win situation.
     
  13. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Thanks...and you're right about the difficult choice part, hence the reason for this thread....they do both seem like good choices. It's hard to decide and I'm honestly still on the fence. I'm going to compare benefits tonight and see how they stack up....then figure out if I'll give my current boss the chance to match the other offer.

    I have a feeling that if they did match it, there would be really harsh feelings about having to do it because when I got the job, I had a third company (not the 2 in this thread) that was talking about paying me 1.5 times this companies top offer....so my current employer came up but not much. The other job changed their mind and went with someone else so I had to accept my current job but when I did, they dropped the salary by $1,000 which really pissed me off and I almost told them to shove it....but alas, I needed the money.

    So I'm not sure I should I should even give them the opportunity to match it.
     
  14. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Yeah, it's soo nice because I also see it as a win-win situation. Thanks for all your feedback in this thread...it really does help.
     
  15. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Well I talked with my current boss today and he couldn't have been nicer. Even told me that if it didn't work out to contact him immediately cuz if he has an opening, he'll bring me back on.

    He also said there wasn't any way he could pay me more money. While money isn't the only issue, there's certainly enough of a difference that it's a huge factor.

    I looked at the benefits for the new company and some are better, some aren't so I think I'll be accepting the new position. Thanks for all the feedback. I really appreciate it.
     
  16. DAN513

    DAN513 OT Supporter

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    Good luck with your choice!
     
  17. Stev

    Stev Active Member

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    well i stopped reading halfway down cuz u guys typed a lot. :p

    Just evaluate what is most important to you.. When i left my last job it basicly came down to:
    People i work with. This(to me at least) is much more important than pay and anything else. People and how you get treated can make or break a job, regaurdless of the nice pay and awesome growth opportunities, if you are miserable that stuff doesnt matter.

    Pay/Benefits: to me, this was secondary. I wasnt getting a downgrade in vacation or medical benefits, so that was fine, and i got a small pay raise. Pay is nice, but im at the point where i am making a good wage and that really wasnt a big selling point for me.

    Projects and future growth. Gotta be happy with what you are doing. No matter what age you are or where you are in your career, i think you always have to be looking for the next step in your life/career. If your current job cannot offer that, then look for that next step elsewhere, PERIOD.

    Good luck to you, changing jobs sucks...
     
  18. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown Don't make me make you my hobby

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    The govt job will always have a wage ceiling.

    But retirement might be better, with better benefits (that you can trust!) as well as at an earlier age with the govt.
     
  19. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Thanks...I'm excited and can't wait to get started. I spent the day informing people at my current job and they were all like :ugh2:....you just started. lol
     
  20. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    This is much easier said than done. I've worked at a job where I was highly paid with lots of responsibility, no budget constraints and a HUGE amount of stress. I don't ever want to go back to that lifestyle but there are lots of variations between that and where I am today.

    This was a complication as I really like the people I'm working with....like a lot. The people I interviewed with sound very similar and I'm thinking I'm going to fit right in with this new company also. It's strange but I see a LOT of similarities between the 2 company personnel and I've had very similar interviews with each.
    This is where I differ. My years of XP, while not in programming is related to it. So my current company was underpaying me for just my programming XP and they weren't compensating me for any of my other XP....they simply didn't have the contracts to do that.

    The new company corrects a lot of that imbalance and equates to about a 15% raise. That's nice since I'm just starting out on my new career.
    This is also a HUGE issue for me and another reason I'm changing companies. The opportunities in the new company are really strong and there are sooo many friggin jobs here for the tech I'll be learning and using. IMO, this move really isn't just about money. I believe it's the best for my career.
    exactly.
    Thanks....but I love change so this won't be that bad, IMO.

    Plus I worked it out to where I'll have a weeks vacation between the 2 jobs. My friends are cracking up because I've been unemployed for 4+ years and only employed for like 10 weeks now....I'm so tired. :rofl:

    Fuck em....they're just jealous. :fawk:
     
  21. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    It's a govt contractor. And I would be VERY, VERY careful about trusting ANY sort of pension plan. Many people got royally screwed by that recently.

    The retirement plans for both companies are very similar. Current company, 401K with up to 4% match. New company, 401K with up to 3% match. However, the new company has greater opportunities to earn higher salaries and receive bonuses so I should easily be able to make up the difference with private investments.
     

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