Had an interesting conversation about squats with a trainer today.

Discussion in 'Fitness & Nutrition' started by hootpie, Sep 26, 2007.

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  1. hootpie

    hootpie New Member

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    My friend and I were doing squats and I saw a female trainer looking at us. I immediately knew she was going to come over and talk to us about our form. We were going a2g with toes pointed slightly out...same form as the video Ceaze posted with the Olympic training coach.

    She asked, "Why do you go so low?" I wasn't trying to be rude, but looking back on it, my reply of, "Because that's proper form" wasn't the nicest way to say it.

    She said, "Well if you're doing powerlifting, then yes, but otherwise it's better for your knees to stop at 90 degrees or even somewhere before that." Granted, I'm not the best at the logistics behind going deep, but I tried to explain it as much as possible. I told her how there is more strain on the joint when you stop at 90 degrees and how you recruit more muscles with the greater range of motion. All she replied with is, "That may be true, but I'll feel bad if you come to me and say, 'I blew out my knee'."

    I made an analogy to bringing the bar all the way down to your chest when you bench press vs. stopping when your elbows are at 90. I got essentially the same response, "Yes, but there's a better chance of blowing out a shoulder going that low." I wanted to just say, "Well there's a better chance of injuring yourself if you move, so you should just stay stationary all day long."

    Then she proceeded to ask why I squat with my toes pointing outwards instead of straight forward. I told her I naturally have open hips, plus I can go deeper with my toes slightly outward.

    Next time, I'm going to pretend like I don't speak english.
     
  2. nwmrkt

    nwmrkt New Member

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    trainers are like that
     
  3. timberwolf

    timberwolf New Member

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    You answered pretty well.

    Was she hot? If so you should have asked her to show you a proper squat form and then also asked if you could take pics to better remember proper squat form in the future.:x:
     
  4. hootpie

    hootpie New Member

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    I wish...she had an ok face, but she was short, and was, "...currently in a mass building phase for her next competition." I'll let you get your own visual from there.
     
  5. THE mister juice

    THE mister juice jfk→sea

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    the huge broly dude came up to me today and told me "good DL form kid, that's how it's done"

    i was giddy

    edit: still am.
     
  6. Drewski

    Drewski New Member

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    and ask if he you could help naturally open her hips :naughty:
     
  7. Drewski

    Drewski New Member

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    love when that happens. was doing either cleans or good mornings and one of the bigger guys came over and said nice work. dont' see enough people doing those, letting alone doing them with correct form
     
  8. macro

    macro New Member

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    when it comes to squating lever length, tendon insertions and hip joint angles often mean A2G does put more strain on knees and lower back. For people that feel no strain and high level fiber recruitment (without the calf bounce) they are fine. But generally reccomend going below parallel. Range of motion and effectiveness are not consistent accross the population.
     
  9. THE mister juice

    THE mister juice jfk→sea

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    :bowdown: it's a great feeling
     
  10. TZ

    TZ Banned

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    Yeah, one dude came up to me and told me not to go so deep. I remember when I first started lifting I thought he was crazy strong. Now I'm wayyy stronger and bigger, kinda funny. In my mind i was just like...ok dude, you have fun with your 5 inch high from parallel squats with 315...i'm gonna go close stance, high bar and bury more weight than you do high for more sets and reps :wavey: :mamoru:
     
  11. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

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    Dunno if Ceaze can chime in, but I recall seeing something about having to check for the pelvis not to tilt when going low which would cause someone to have a round lower back.
     
  12. siniquezu

    siniquezu New Member

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    I thought it was olympic lifters who go past parallel.

    :bowdown:
     
  13. hootpie

    hootpie New Member

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    I think my form is pretty spot on. I don't bounce at the bottom and I don't round my back at all.
     
  14. macro

    macro New Member

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    the thing here is that people need to recognize (as to why the original poster and his female counterpoint both have valid points) that not everyone is them and vice versa. While there are general principles in training and form, there is actually wide variance and utility among individuals.

    for some people A2G is the best, for others its injury and agony waiting to happen regardless of adjustment to mechanics, improvements in flexibility, etc... some people are just not structurally designed for it.
     
  15. Mike McDermott

    Mike McDermott It's evolution, baby. OT Supporter

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    "Well if you're doing powerlifting, then yes, but otherwise it's better for your knees to stop at 90 degrees or even somewhere before that."

    That female trainer is simply wrong.
     
  16. macro

    macro New Member

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    must have misread that as 90 or slightly below that (which would be fairly correct).... that being 90 degrees from lever points, not musculature.

    note- from a trainer standpoint dealing with someone with questionable ability (people who generally use trainers at chain fitness centers) stopping before 90 lowers risk of injury as that is a shift point generally for hips and lower back.
     
  17. hootpie

    hootpie New Member

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    By 90 or higher she meant 1/2 squats to 1/4 squats.
     
  18. Toodles

    Toodles You are the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the w OT Supporter

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    I know everybody's different, but what is the "correct" squat form?

    I've been told by the trainer at my gym that the feet should be shoulder-length apart and toes pointed straight so you don't neglect your inner/medial thigh muscles, and the general rule that the knee should not extend past the toes during descent.

    I feel like I can't go as low with this form, but I've been able to squat more weight with this form than with toes pointed a bit out.

    So which is it? :dunno:
     
  19. Mr. Badass

    Mr. Badass New Member

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    well, starting strength says:

    -knees pointed out thirty degrees
    -a little wider than shoulder-width stance
    -knees should extend past toes
     
  20. Perkwunos

    Perkwunos Dog Bones OT Supporter

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    :rofl:

    ok.....

    :rofl:


    If i go to get my car worked on, does the guy tell me he wont touch it because it may cause reliability problems in the future?

    No, he fixes the fucking problem.

    If a trainer is too incompetent to teach proper form in the squat, and to teach people the correct way to not round over bellow 90 degrees, they have no business training to begin with. It is most important to teach a beginning lifter proper form with little to no weight on a bar, once this is a accomplished, one may increase the weight.

    There are three reasons people round over in squats technique, inflexibility and lack of strength. If there is a trainer out there who is halfway worth a shit, they can realize any of these issues, and fix them before you get to the point where you could cause an injury.

    The lack of strength issue is hardly ever the problem, more especially when one is not working with a maximal weight, real beginners should really never be working with maximum weights anyway.
     
  21. NUDES

    NUDES New Member

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    Everybody is different.. sure. But there isn't really any normal human being barring any kind of disablity or prior injury that is incapable of at least squatting below parallel safely.

    If they cannot, it is a flexibility issue.. and thus they should work on their flexibility, and not use ANY load until they can properly squat.

    People squat high for one reason and one reason only: beacuse it is EASIER. That's really all. Or because certain groups (some bodybuilders) believe that that's all they need for their sport.. and that is true. A lot of BB's have massive legs but don't squat anywhere near passed parallel.

    Squat however you want.. front, back, hack, wide, close, with oly shoes, without, on a plate, not on a plate.. but for shits sake at LEAST hit parallel or a little below it.
     
  22. macro

    macro New Member

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    agree....

    however....

    most trainers are often just certified by the chain they work for... a chain that probably cares a lot more about liability and trainee "comfort and illusion of success" (thus willingness to continue and pay).. than anything else.

    note- squat is probably the most widely poorly performed exercise.
     
  23. macro

    macro New Member

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    no argument. was really only addressing the A2G issues versus parallell. Certainly beleive that with stance and movement adjustments (along with increasing flexibility) there are few people that cannot squat parallel. Though it may be a bit of a road for some people to get to that point, and most people are not all that patient (so they sacrifice form for weight- and the illusion of strength it confers- to some)
     
  24. Perkwunos

    Perkwunos Dog Bones OT Supporter

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    They should not be squatting then, the whole point is that if you cant not squat to below parallel, don't do it, and if you can't teach the squat you do not need to be training people.

    Pretty obvious that this "Trainer" has no fucking business "Training" anyone.
     
  25. GTLifter

    GTLifter Banned

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    90+% of trainers are fucking idiots
     
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