Discussion in 'On Topic' started by HisXLNC, Dec 6, 2008.
That statement you quoted is totally true though.
The gun shows and FTF sales are the ONE and ONLY place where I think some extra restriction is not a bad thing. Other laws should go away and I'm for very open ownership, however, I dont think that FTF sales or gun show sales should be under any less scrutiny than something from a gun shop. Just my opinion, flame away.
The way gun shows work around here is that you have to be a member of the Washington Arms Collectors in order to buy any guns at a show. To be a member of the WAC you must show that you can legally own a gun. You must submit a valid CPL or other such document. If you're not a member, you can still buy stuff at shows, just not guns.
gtfo. intrastate commerce. govt already abuses it too much. licensing FFLs and requiring background checks and not allowing a citizen to purchase in a different state is so stupid
I agree, not being able to purchase in a different state is stupid. It should be allowed, with the proper background checks.
FTF sales in state, IMO, are also stupid. I think there should be some regulation and should go through an FFL.
I do think buying through FFLs, in and out of state should be easier. Once you buy once, you should get a SHALL ISSUE card or something that states you're ok to own, much like MG's example above. That should be all that's needed for a sale. CCW's could also work for such sales. The NICS check on every sale and the wait periods in some states and monthly regulations should all go away. If you're legal to own, there should be nothing stopping you...period.
However, I think there should be SOME kind of regulation at gun shows and with FTF sales. Again, my OPINION and you can flame away.
The Founders wanted Congress to regulate interstate commerce not intrastate commerce.
Citizens obey the law. Criminals do not. So what makes you think that back alley deals will go away with the addition of another law?
Yeah, yeah, thats always the argument. But why make it EASY for them by not regulating it at all. Make them go to the back alley. And its not ANOTHER law, its just enforcing the one we already have under ALL circumstances. Criminals are going to get them, but why make it too easy? Everyday, there are tons of people rejected in gun shops because of the NICS check. Why would we not want them stopped at the gun shows too? If they become a criminal and go to the back alley, then they're breaking the law and that is up to the cops to fix. When the gun population allows for criminals or psychos to buy legally at gun shows, it just gives the impression that we dont give a damn and are more interested in the ease of how we can personally get guns than actually keeping people safe. That is not a good impression of our hobby.
I dont see this as being a big deal, think realistically. Its only logical that something that is restricted for sale be restricted under ALL circumstances. It doesnt make sense that just cause I would buy at a County Fairgrounds, it should be any less regulated. ESPECIALLY, when all those selling at the fairgrounds are generally FFLs anyway and can easily do the check. Its just silly.
The mere fact that people fight so hard to keep this loophole (and it is a loophole) makes us just look like idiots. Its not a big deal, close it and get on with life and give them one less thing they can rationally try to use against us. Any non-gun person will just see this as a bad thing. It doesnt hurt us at all to allow for a quick phone call to get that next weapon from the gun show, however, fighting to keep the unregulated right open hurts us as a group a lot.
And striker, its not regulating commerce, its regulating a dangerous item that is already regulated. I dont think the Founders ever said anything about gun sales and gun shows anyway. But just cause its within state does not make it any less reason to be regulated. If that was the case, you could buy from a gun store that is in state. Its not about the commerce or the sale, its about the sale of a regulated and dangerous item. The whole commerce regulation issue is not on point at all.
You have no clue what you're talking about.
A licenced dealer has to run a background check any time he sells any gun, no matter where he is. It doesn't matter if he's at his store, at a gun show, or in his garage. If he's selling a firearm from his inventory, there's a background check.
i believe he's talking about FTF sales from private owners at fun shows. but even that, i still don't agree with. i would be wary of selling a handgun to someone without a CHP for instance. how else is there a way to prove that you can legally purchase a gun. i think that's the issue.
If the state wants to pass laws requiring a background check for sales within their borders that is fine. If the feds want to? Thats overstepping the Commerce Clause IMO and I would guess in the Founder's opinions as well.
And face to face sales from private owners are not regulated anywhere, no matter where they take place; whether at a gun show or in your garage.
Gun shows are nothing special, and there is no loophole.
Unless you live in a shitty state that DOES regulate private sales, in which case gun shows are STILL not a special case.
what about people who don't care if they sell to criminals? i mean, i would require a CHP, but what if someone doesn't and they sell to a person that wants to commit a crime?
you don't see it as a big deal restricting freedoms of individuals. but you acknowledge criminals won't follow the law
christ, what a dumb fucking post you made
give up all your guns
i mean that tops it
"lets make more laws, even though it is already illegal"
What about it? If somebody knowingly sells to a criminal, then it's already illegal. Interfering in private sales isn't going to stop that. You can't just make it Double-Secret illegal and hope the problem goes away.
I went to the show today in Monroe. You have to be a member of WAC and I saw a few sellers even doing the paper work and calling in to verify your background check.
If I own a cell phone, WHAT IF I sell it to a terrorist who plans on using it to remote-detonate bombs?! WE MUST REGULATE TELEPHONE SALES!!!!
If I own a knife, WHAT IF I sell it to a criminal who plans on stabbing somebody with it?! WE MUST REGULATE KNIFE SALES!!!!
See what I'm getting at? A gun is personal property, and it's none of anybody's business what I own or how many or when or whether I choose to sell them.
We need to regulate fertilizer sales and truck rentals. Last I checked, terrorists haven't used guns in the US, but they've definitely used trucks and ANFO bombs.
I think Ammonium Nitrate fertilizer IS regulated.
Sales are recorded or something like that.
How many FFLs do you plan on buying for the rest of us so we can make that quick phone call?
I've got a bag of the stuff. I just bought it from a guy to de-ice my driveway. No one recorded my sale.
I guess we need to close the fertilizer loophole too.
I'm sure he's all-for legislation making in-home FFL's impossible as well.
I believe the Brady Camp were the ones who were bitching about FFLs being too easy to get. Now they're complaining about the gun show loophole (recently they've started calling it something else since it was revealed that there is no gun show loophole). Any thinking person can see that the closing of this "loophole" has very little to do with actual safety and more to do with adding more roadblocks to the legal selling and purchasing of weapons. They don't care if you do a background check or not. Their goal is to stop the selling and purchasing of guns period.