MIL Guantanamo Bay

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by dmcgill, Dec 26, 2009.

  1. dmcgill

    dmcgill New Member

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    So when President Obama got elected one of the FIRST fucking things he decides to do is close Gitmo, and transport the prisoners elsewhere.

    I've been there, and for the life of me I cannot think of any better place to house captured terrorists. Why move them from a desolate island (that Americans can't even access, for the majority) to a fucking small town Illinois prison. What the FUCK, was the point of that. Someone please slap me in the face and enlighten me if my way of thinking is ill-informed.
     
  2. PlutoBHG

    PlutoBHG New Member

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    was a stupid publicity move...
     
  3. Jyokker

    Jyokker The trouser snake is very aggressive. It will corn

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    It boils down to human rights.
     
  4. dmcgill

    dmcgill New Member

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    Human/terrorist rights not the same thing.
     
  5. DawnsKayBug

    DawnsKayBug New Member

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    Move please, Canada would suffice.
     
  6. DawnsKayBug

    DawnsKayBug New Member

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    Why does it matter that Americans cant access it?
    Why move it to the US..
    Well there is the cost factor your not depending on flights/ships for delivering supplies. Jobs will be created in illinois. Its a federal prison not a "military" prison.
    DO you know why Bush sent them to Cuba in the first place?
     
  7. bacdo

    bacdo New Member

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    Big mistake imo. Obama is soft on terrorists and he is all for appeasing our enemies.
     
  8. The Method

    The Method Lurker In Progress

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    Proof of being soft on terrorists please.
     
  9. Kafka

    Kafka New Member

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    But there's a been a number of Gitmo detainees that have been released without any charges having ever been filed against them. They were just in the wrong village at the wrong time.

    Ultimately, we all deserve human rights until it's proven we shouldn't be. I think that's a fairly reasonable view.
     
  10. Sure, moving them from Gitmo to Illinois means nothing, it's just a publicity stunt. Whether you want to believe it or not, most of those people are not terrorists. They're regular Afghans who got captured by Afghan war lords and then sold to the Americans. No different than when African war lords sold slaves to European colonialists in the 17th century
     
  11. dmcgill

    dmcgill New Member

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    Good points.
     
  12. dmcgill

    dmcgill New Member

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    What I meant was it is a more secure location IMO, for the legitimate terrorists that are there. And if they escaped, they'd have no where to go, whereas in Illinois they are already in the country they want to decimate.

    Do inform.
     
  13. DawnsKayBug

    DawnsKayBug New Member

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    There also sending them to Palau. Home of the worlds best diving. Its the only money maker there. The governor is begging for them. Jobs jobs jobs $$$$

    One of the reasons they were sent to Cuba is for legal issues on there status and what can/cannot be done to them.
     
  14. The Method

    The Method Lurker In Progress

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    :bowrofl:

    l4zy: in case you didn't know, Ronald Regan is an 18 year old'ish kid who will troll any thread on OT involving western foreign policy politics but knows NOTHING about what he's talking about, reference: http://forums.offtopic.com/showthread.php?t=4394479&page=6

    And then there's Kafka, :rofl:

    Don't waste your time, the reality of the situation is that Ronald Regan represents a so-called "Muslim Crew" on OT that defend these issues to the death without regard for logic or facts. It's a cultural and religious debate for them vice a security debate for you.
     
  15. dmcgill

    dmcgill New Member

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    There needs to be a god damn screening for members who wish to post in this forum...a sticky maybe, as to why you should be allowed to post here if you're not in the military.

    l4zy, thank you for your input.
     
  16. PlutoBHG

    PlutoBHG New Member

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    human rights? :bowrofl:

    you think being inmates with american criminals surrounding them is going to make their prison time any better? how about the trial process? they will have to have their own wing to get away from that shit...
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2009
  17. The Method

    The Method Lurker In Progress

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    .
     
  18. Kafka

    Kafka New Member

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    I agree.

    It's obvious the majority are terrorists and if not terrorists, involved in some sort of illicit activities.

    I think it'd be unreasonable to say that the majority are actually totally innocent. That said, a small number may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    The question is essentially whether the effectiveness of GITMO overrides concerns over human rights "violations".
     
  19. bacdo

    bacdo New Member

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    :rofl:
     
  20. CappyStyles

    CappyStyles New Member

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  21. PepsiMax

    PepsiMax New Member

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    Good thing this thinking rallies supports to the Taliban and insurgency.

    Notice how the recent video released by the Taliban about PFC Bowe Bergdahl specifically stated how they do not torture their prisoners.

    The Bush doctrine has sent a horrible precedent for human rights and makes me ashamed of what my country has done.
     
  22. bacdo

    bacdo New Member

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    Don't buy into that propaganda video. I wouldn't hold any stock into anything that he is putting out (Chances are he is being coerced into making those statements).

    Ignorance - you are like the majority of people. One thing that you need to know is that the information abstracted from the detainees was instrumental in preventing more terror attacks and much more.
    Intelligence was able to find out who/what/when/where in regards to Al Queda/ Taliban /networks and much more.

    But, let's look at it from your perspective. Rough Interrogation is wrong. And yes, I agree it is not pleasant. Let's just say that President Bush did not authorize rough interrogation. The information that would have subsequently been abstracted from the detainees would have prevented more terror attacks on Americans at home and abroad. As a result, more terror attacks would have occurred on Americans everywhere if we had it your way. Then more people like yourself would have bitched that President Bush did not do enough to protect America.

    There is no middle of the road on this option. It was absolutely necessary. You can continue to live in ignorance and denial or see the truth for what it is. Even though the truth may not be pleasant, that's just the way it is.
     
  23. PepsiMax

    PepsiMax New Member

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    Of course he's being coerced, I'm just presenting how it is seen in the Muslim world and how it's a tool of recruitment.

    First, don't use an ad hominem. Second, basically you are saying we save a more people by inconveniencing one. I'm sure if we tortured every single Pashto in Afghanistan we could learn a whole more about the Taliban's operations in mountainous regions, but we don't, because it's morally abhorrent. This is a terrible utilitarian argument.

    I have no problem with gathering intelligence and I believe HUMINT became too degraded under the Clinton administration follow by the Rumsfeldians. Stop pretending like I had an argument against gathering intelligence and interrogation.



    I'm talking about torture, not rough interrogation. Someone being slapped around and being sleep deprived is not torture. Threatening to kill people, electrocution, etc... that's torture. Torture is also horribly unreliable because often people will say anything to make the torture stop.

    The terror attacks on 9/11 took years to plan and mobilize, it wasn't a "hey, let's go fly planes into buildings tomorrow" kind of thing. Besides, you can't actually know the true consequences that more terror plots were foiled. Crazy people don't need a link to Al-Qaeda or any other extremist group in order to commit mass murder.

    You're creating a false dilemma.
     
  24. bacdo

    bacdo New Member

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    that was at Abu Ghraib Prison, not Guantanamo. Threatening to kill the family of the detainee is not really torture either.

    And yeah torture is unreliable - if you are exerting "real" torture.
    i.e., pulling off toe nails/ boiling body parts/ inserting glass rods into penises and breaking it with a hammer, etc... because a detainee would say anything to make the pain stop. So, you are correct on that.

    But, we do not do this type of stuff. Your point of saying that torture is unreliable and that the detainee will say anything to make it stop is valid, but as previously stated we do not exert this kind of torture which invalidates your claim.
     
  25. thekinggovernor

    thekinggovernor OT Supporter

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