GUN Good read on the CA AR/AK "off-list"

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by twofourtysx, Feb 28, 2006.

  1. twofourtysx

    twofourtysx New Member

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    In addition, the law states that any weapon that is part of the AR-15 series or AK series is also an assault weapon, regardless of manufacturer; this dates back to 1989 ban, and was confirmed in the Kasler v. Lockyer decision, filed 6/29/2000 [1]. However, the California Supreme Court declared the identification of assault weapon by series membership to be too dubious and difficult for the average citizen or even trial court to make without specific and clear model identification guidelines. The court thus set some specific requirements for the "series" identification portion of the law in their ruling of Harrot v. County of Kings, filed 6/28/2001 [2]. This decision required banned firearms to be specifically listed by make and model in California Code of Regulations (the "Kasler list", [[3]]) (it did not address assault weapons defined by features.) Thus, only firearms specifically listed by exact combination of manufacturer and model name, or conforming to explicit exterior characteristics (such as a pistol grip or folding stock in combination with a detachable magazine) can be banned under current legislation.

    Once it was realized the California Department of Justice (CA DOJ) has not updated the "Kasler list" in the 5 years after Harrott decision, many Californians found they could legally purchase and possess AR and AK rifles not yet officially identified as "series" members. As of February 2006, over 10,000 "off-list" receivers (frames) for such rifles have been legally imported to, and purchased within, California. The only requirement for these receivers are that the combination of make and model is not explicitly listed as banned, and as long as the owner does not add certain "characteristic features" turning the firearm into an assault weapon (i.e. pistol grip, flash suppressor, etc). These characteristic features can be used, however, if a nondetachable 10-round (or less) magazine, conforming in the converse to the California Code of Regulations section 978.20 definition of detachable magazine[4] , is affixed to such "off-list" rifles. These off-list rifles can also be used without a pistol grip, folding stock or flash hider, in which case it is legal to own and use them with detachable magazines.

    The CA DOJ produced a report from the Ferranto Commision in response [5]. It appears that this list will be updated in early 2006. CA DOJ also issued a controversial memorandum dated February 1, 2006 [6], whose described actions are not founded or supported within statutory law in Penal Code 12275-12290. This memo stated that once off-list "series" firearms are declared and registered as assault weapons, they will not be able to have characteristic features added or fixed magazines removed. This is being challenged by pro-gun groups, since there is no criminal violation in the California Penal Code for adding or changing features to a legally-acquired, registered assault weapon.




    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control_in_the_United_States_(by_state)
     
  2. striker754

    striker754 Chillin

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    Not reading, but Im guessing CA is going to find a way to fuck you guys.
     
  3. twofourtysx

    twofourtysx New Member

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    Maybe you should just read it. It took me all of 45 seconds
     
  4. Artyboy

    Artyboy Necessity is the excuse for every infringement of

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    It's not really that interesting unless you live in Cali, anyway
     
  5. itchiban

    itchiban New Member

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    I thought that if you bought one of the off list receivers you could do whatever you wanted to it. :dunno:

    Thats fucking gay
     
  6. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    Nope, still has to be SB-23 compliant (ie, no detachable mag if you have 'evil features' = pistol grip/flash hider/collapsable stock/forward pistol grip)
     
  7. islanderman7

    islanderman7 New Member

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    as a californian, i already know all this shit! dont read if you already have a lower.
     
  8. striker754

    striker754 Chillin

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    :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

    So all these people buying lowers are getting owned right? :rofl:

    Unless of course you dont want a pistol grip on your gun with a detachable mag :mamoru: :mamoru: :mamoru:
     
  9. lobstradomus

    lobstradomus New Member

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    So let me get this straight, I thought I had it figured out but now I'm not sure. So say I bought a receiver, I can add anything I want so long as it has a fixed mag. But if I use a detachable mag I cant have anything listed under PC 12276.1, until its declared an AW then I can add all of those features. That is unless the DOJ is serious about its Feb 1 memo, then I cant add those features ever?
     
  10. Thunderbear

    Thunderbear Yggdrasil's Forester.

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    Christ, man, just move.
     
  11. itchiban

    itchiban New Member

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    Thats not as easy as it sounds. That being said... I agree. The gun laws in CA will always be the deciding factor for me living there, or somewhere else.

    That, and the emissions regulations blow. AZ = new hotness. :bowdown:
     
  12. twofourtysx

    twofourtysx New Member

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    no

    http://www.calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm
     
  13. itchiban

    itchiban New Member

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    I'm going to go assault some shit with my 37mm flares. :hsugh:
     
  14. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    well, for what it is worth, the guy who wrote the AR/AK FAQ (Bill Wiese), just did something today to stir up the DOJ, so all of us with lower receivers are going to have them listed as regular AWs soon methinks.
     
  15. Sssnake

    Sssnake meh

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    Will buy receivers, $80 bucks cash. :)
     
  16. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    Why the hell does every body outside CA assume that we are not going to get to use these things?
     
  17. striker754

    striker754 Chillin

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    What if they don't allow you to register the gun as an AW?
     
  18. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    Then more and more of them come in, and we still win. Plus, it looks like a CGN member may have contacted the media, because we all know how they will react here in Cali to something like this.

    If they list them: We get "AWs". Manufacturers change the model name (atleast one has said they will do this the instant anything is listed), and more start coming in again. Bottom line, if they list, we win.

    If they dont list them: tens of thousands more come into the state, more people get these, people start to realize that these laws make no sense and cannot be really enforced. Bottom line, once again, is that we win.
     
  19. lobstradomus

    lobstradomus New Member

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    Alright, I read most of that before, and just read it again and I'm not sure what I'm getting wrong. An off-list receiver is legal to build on so long as you dont put on a telescoping stock and etc, but you can get around that if you use a fixed mag. Once it is listed as an AW you no longer have to use the fixed mag. Right?
     
  20. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    Correct. Unless the CA DOJ tries to enforce the memo, in which case, wait for the court battle to be over first.
     
  21. lobstradomus

    lobstradomus New Member

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    Thats what I said above, still trying to figure out what I got wrong.
     
  22. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    I dont think you got anything wrong.
     
  23. twofourtysx

    twofourtysx New Member

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    I read it as "after the ban we cant use any of the features". You were correct
     
  24. fatmoocow

    fatmoocow bored OT Supporter

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    you people in california should spend your time writing to your representatives rather than complaining to OT
     
  25. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    thats the problem with Cali, those reps that would actually read the letters already support us, but those whos opinions we need to change might not even get the letters. And thanks to voters who dont know what the fuck they were voting for, we couldnt even get a redistricting measure approved to even out the rigged districts.
     

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