German Engineering FTL

Discussion in 'OT Driven' started by thedguy, Jul 22, 2006.

  1. thedguy

    thedguy New Member

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    Here's what happened:
    Timing chain tensioner started to fail before we picked up the car.
    Never knowing what the motor sounded like properly, and not knowing about the tensioners failure around 100k miles it was never taken care of...
    Until 140k miles when it was finally fixed after someone told us it sounded like it was broke. At 145k miles we came around a corner, and the sound of no oil/metal-on-metal contact, within half a second my bro had the engine off.
    What happened is the timing chain was slowly destroyed, along with all the timing gear. All the bits of the chain fell into the oil pan, though never came out during any of the oil changes strangly enough.
    The pump sucked up these pieces of chain into the pickup, clogging it atleast a little (we noticed a lifter tick and we feel this may have been it). Oil pump eventually forced the bits of chain thru the pick-up protective screen (which is suprisingly strong.
    The oil pump housing/timing case cracked and seperated in a few spots, the oil pump itself broke into 6 pieces, the ring on the pump slit into 2. As can be seen, loads and loads of scoring.

    What the front of the timing case should look like:
    [​IMG]

    What my bro's looks like. Notice the crack, about 3-4inches long where the pump is! And notice the lower chain guide, the plastic is completely gone from the mounting post. There is a crack on the other side of the housing as well.
    [​IMG]

    Hole in the screen.
    [​IMG]

    look on the right you can see the missing piece of housing, fell out once we pulled the casing off the block.
    [​IMG]

    The other cracks in the casing
    [​IMG]

    I think this is a bit self explanitory.
    [​IMG]

    Just to show the damage along with the BMW logo. Also this aluminum part faces the block. The pump is in between it and the block. Personally I hate the design. Why couldn't the casing be cast into the block, and a pump on the other wide, would have been MUCH easier to service, and wouldn't require replacing a $300 aluminum casing.
    [​IMG]

    Close up:
    [​IMG]


    The car is a 1991 BMW 318is, with the Cast Iron block/Aluminum head M42 DOHC 1.8 litre engine. While pulling this thing apart, nearly every bolt on it that hadn't been touched since new, were barely considered tight (just enought that you couldn't get them loose by hand).

    If we were to purchase all the parts new to fix this would be well over $1500 for the absolute minimum parts. I hate to see what labor is.

    If this is the Poor mans M3 fuck the real one.

    edit: cost.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2006
  2. ChosenGSR

    ChosenGSR Mama always said you'd be the chosen one

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    yes, BMWs are horrible cars. Stay away.
     
  3. MrBucket

    MrBucket OT Supporter

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    no its called improper maintenence and can happen to any car
     
  4. thedguy

    thedguy New Member

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    Great chassis. I'll just collect a Few e30's and fix them with Chevy/Ford Engine/drivetrains. :fawk:

    Timing Chain tensioner isn't a standard maintenance item. Though many forums will say to change around 120k miles, when the 6 cylinder guys aren't drowning out the threads.

    But my bro picked up the car with a hair over 120k on it. The previous owner(s) treated it like it was a 22r Toyota pickup.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2006
  5. waspride

    waspride Can't this wait till I'm old, can I live while I'm

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    I don't think you should be bitching about a $500 part not including labor on a 15 year old euro.
     
  6. Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan

    Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan OT Supporter

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    :werd:
     
  7. thedguy

    thedguy New Member

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    Recheck my post. $300 is just for 1 part, the now useless piece of aluminum timing case, plus there's the pump, the timing cover, the chain, the guides, the cam gears, water pump, belts, and possibly an a/c recharge.
    We picked up a used motor and new gaskets, whole job will be under $400. But this motor is just horribly designed. Why is this shit cast seperate from the block? And why is the oil pickup so poorly protected from sucking 3/16"x1/4" chunks of metal?

    A better shot of the hole in the pickup:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2006
  8. waspride

    waspride Can't this wait till I'm old, can I live while I'm

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    You fucking quimby. You edited your post after i posted my comment on your bitching about a $500 part. :greddy:
     
  9. thedguy

    thedguy New Member

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    Thats a perfectly rational point which I choose ignore :squint:
     
  10. waspride

    waspride Can't this wait till I'm old, can I live while I'm

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    :mamoru:
     
  11. white lightnin

    white lightnin New Member

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    Sounds like you had some bad luck, no need to get so butt hurt over it. I mean the car has almost 150k miles on it...
     
  12. thedguy

    thedguy New Member

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    Considering when we bought it everyone kept saying how these should go 300k with standard maintenance, a little of this is justified. While I haven't mentioned it before, we (bro and I) have spent just as much, if not more time underneath it than in it. This car has burned me, and several others I know with these to many times. Everytime we fix something, or do some preventative maintenance and think "sweet, it's running great, shouldn't have to worry about it" then this happens.


    That and I just can't get passed how retarded this thing is pieced together, why is the timing case cast seperate from aluminum, with the oil pump between the block and the casing? Chevy's have all that cast into the block, with the pump underneath.
     
  13. Aleks

    Aleks New Member

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    This is why I walk.
     
  14. Mr. Itchy

    Mr. Itchy Guest

    I had a 325e with 225k miles and a 325i with 175k. Ran strong until the day they day they met their fate (dump truck and mexican red light runner :mamoru: )
     
  15. yo vanilla

    yo vanilla New Member

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    i couldn't help but have 2 fast 2 furious flash through my head from start to finish, with all the times you said "bro" :ugh2: :mamoru:
     
  16. thedguy

    thedguy New Member

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    It is my brothers car. :fawk2:


    dangertomanifold.jpg
     
  17. dmcgill

    dmcgill New Member

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    Where's prior?
     
  18. MaRcH HaRe

    MaRcH HaRe New Member

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    so what im hearing is you heard metallic noises for quite a long period of time, you ignored them, they got worse, until suddenly everything broke down.

    Amazing.
     
  19. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    You bought a very used car from someone you didn't know. Then you drove it like it was new without having it overhauled by the best mechanic you could find. You didn't even drop the oil pan to look for debris. And now you're complaining about how it ground itself to pieces.

    So, basically, you did everything wrong. I mean, it does suck that you bought the car and it needs repairs, but for God's sake man, it's fifteen years old with 150k on the odometer, and you have absolutely no idea what kind of mindless abuse the car has seen since it was built back in 1991. What did you think was going to happen?

    This isn't German Engineering FTL, this is Complete Lack of Common Sense FTL. Just be glad your brother was driving it when it broke, and that he could tell it was broken fast enough to shut it down before it was completely destroyed.
     
  20. thedguy

    thedguy New Member

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    I've heard engines that sounded worse than this and were normal. It wasn't all that loud or significant. We've taken the car to several BMW meets that had people who also owned this car and the problem wasn't spotted till we ran into a BMW master tech at one in Kansas City, he mentioned we should change it, and he didn't even act like it was really needed. Once we got back from KC we changed it but still.

    edit: My brother told me people (who have worked on cars) have even commented on how quiet and smooth the car ran. This when the tensioner was bad. As I've tried to point out before, we had no benchmark for how good or bad of shape this motor was in.

    Miata's are known to have lifter tick from the factory, though anyone who knows about engines will hear it and say to get it fixed. My brother has one, and it drives him up the wall, but everyone says it's fine. Eventually we'll actually get the tranny fixed so we can drive it.

    I have to admit I was pretty pissed off so any sense of rationale was out the window. It's been a constant fight to keep this car in a decent running condition. I'm also used to cars like 80's toyota's with the 20/22r motors. Cars that can go without maintenance and not make you regret it for another 200k miles :big grin:

    While I'm sure the car is great when it's well maintained, the previous owner(s) treated this thing like a 20r toyota pickup, complete with 30k mile oil changes, and never cleaned air filters. Honestly I doubt if the owner had ever opened the hood prior to us looking at the car.

    I've been in a well tuned 318 (2.1 stroker and 8500rpm redline) with about 210-215hp, and oh it was fun. But god damn I see this thing and how it couldn't hold together, and wonder how anyone can still find a good one.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2006
  21. Harry Caray

    Harry Caray Fine purveyor of x.264, h.264 & TS HD-Video !!! HD

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    my sig FTW
     
  22. XPX

    XPX New Member

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    red x :hs:
    rehost please
     
  23. thedguy

    thedguy New Member

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    sorry, the pics got lost :(
     
  24. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    I'll say again, it really does suck. Hell, I've got a 1999 Passat with 92000 miles on it, and it seems like I'm discovering a new broken thing every other week. (honestly, part of my harshness came from realizing that my own cam chain tensioner is probably giving out, and my timing belt is 20000 miles overdue to snap and kill my engine :noes:)
     
  25. thedguy

    thedguy New Member

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    Deusexaethera: for some reason you've made me hate this car much less...
    I'm actually starting to want to get this thing going again just to drive it. Perhaps I won't kill my brother if he were to find a better condition one to replace this car.

    But god damn this car just can't compete reliability wise with my beater. An 87 nissan sentra that gets treated like the redheaded step child. 173k miles on the fuel filter and it finally put me on the side of the road... until I took a flat head and cleaned the fuel filter...

    Hmm I wonder if only I could find that RX-2/RX-3 I've always wanted... Anyone care if I put a Japanese engine in an E30, that would be an excellent combo.:bigthumb:

    Change that belt. My friend let his timing belt go a bit on his DSM (shitty n/a model), and on his way home from picking up the belt it snapped. 3 blocks from his house!
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2006

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