gay dirty keyboards and fans

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by piratepenguin, Jan 7, 2008.

  1. piratepenguin

    piratepenguin New Member

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    I been thinking for a bit about my next computer build. My senond ever, for myself, to well-do me for my entire university stay at the least. That's at least 4 years.

    I don't worry much about performance and such things, I have major problems with things like dust though, and loud fans, so I'm not worrying about the hardware inside the computer much. Just everything else.

    I will probably go for water cooling, the dust that has gathered in my current over the years annoys my hole (maybe that's much-worsened by how I broke my case door a long time ago and so use the computer without it? Dumbest idea ever it was). So I got rid of every fan I could, now there's just 1 CPU and 1 (probably 2 actually but I'm not checking) PSU fan. I got rid of my AGP graphics card to go back to my on board graphics because the AGP graphics card had a fan (tbh, it somehow broke and then with the fans spinning hitting some shit became loud as fuck).

    So watercooling I'm very interested in my next build to say the least. I've never seen a PSU in a computer that didn't have a fan, are they about and viable? I'm not into games, so I'll probably do with onboard Intel graphics. No fans!

    Now the next thing I'm thinking about is the keyboard. I've heard of keyboards where you can knock off the keys and put the base in the dishwasher (probably with precautions to take care of with the keyboard wire?). What keyboards do this?
    g2g
     
  2. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    watercooling is NOT the answer if you want low-maintenance and reliability.

    Also, water cooling generally involves plenty of high-performance fans, so still lots of dust.


    MOST keyboards can be cleaned in a dishwasher. I just buy a new one every few months. I even have a spare brand-new-in-box sitting in my closet.
     
  3. Casey

    Casey New Member

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  4. crontab

    crontab (uid = 0)

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    there are some near silent fans that you can buy. you can also put air filters (the ones meant for ac vents) in the intake of your pc. that's what i have setup on my machines and it's very quiet and 99% dust free. i have to replace the filter every 6 months or so.

    most keyboards are easy to take apart. take out the boards and wash the rest.
     
  5. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Go here: http://www.endpcnoise.com/

    They sell all kinds of quiet stuff.

    Also, aim all of your fans into your case (with the sole exception of a top-mounted fan, like in the Antec Nine Hundred -- aim that one out instead) and put air filters on all of them. The cheap plastic foam air filters will do just fine. This will cause all the air entering the case to be filtered first, and dust won't get sucked in through all the little gaps in the case because the filtered air is trying to escape through those gaps instead.

    I have this setup on my case and it looks like this inside after three years:

    [​IMG]

    Also, buy a Logitech keyboard; you can remove the entire key tray and soak it in the kitchen sink to clean it.
     
  6. Doomsday

    Doomsday XXX

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    Like the others said, filters will minimize the dust problem.
    For the noise issue, invest on quiet fans and noise dampening materials.
    Start on the case itself. No matter how quiet the fan is, but if your case is amplifying the vibration, it will still be noisy.

    If you go water cooling, try to avoid those cheap pre-built water cooling kits. They suck.
    Custom build the water cooling system that suits your needs (e.g. an external radiator setup would take away the dust issue inside the pc).

    There are fan less power supplies. I know Silverstone, Antec, and Coolmax makes them.
    To my knowledge, these fan less PSUs requires good case airflow since only a heatsink cools it.
    This could be a problem though since you took out most of your fans.
    Also, I believe there are only low wattage models.
     
  7. piratepenguin

    piratepenguin New Member

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    Fuck. I have a logitech keyboard and I just screwed the top off and washed it... Brilliant! That would be doable in a dish washer too? I'm sorted.

    Watercooling uses fans? Now THAT'S shit.

    I seen some "noiseless" computer cases on that site you posted deux, but they're expensive. I don't know much about vapochill, are they much expensive, or are they necessarily noisy? My computer won't be overclocked, hell I would probably underclock it if it made a good difference. Are there cases that do just-enough-vapochilling to keep it nice and cool throughout the system and aren't that expensive? Bah, worth a shot.

    So.. Filters can effectivly reduce the dust amount by A LOT with the right setup? That's pretty cool what you have there deux, think that's what I'll be going for.

    Ohh, I remember a long time ago a dude was building a computer, small, with a mini or micro? ATX PSU. Are these good choices for me if I chose to go small? I don't want something that's gonna feel HOT in Summertime or anytime.

    Harddrives and RAID is something I have to look at next. If I go for a small machine I might have to forget about that though - unless I afford one or two terrrabyte (or at least 2 500gb ones) drives (this computer will be for September).

    My final gripe just to throw it out there is LEDs. I don't want to see these things in a dark room after I'm woken up. Maybe in college since electronic engineering is what I might be going for I'll hack my hardware and write a lightsout command.


    Thank you guys :big grin:
     
  8. piratepenguin

    piratepenguin New Member

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    That's cool. I guess a fair and good setup of quiet fans are just the way to go.

    edit: custom water cooling with external radiator.. That's another thing I shall be considering.
     
  9. Doomsday

    Doomsday XXX

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    On the radiator, yes.

    The thing is you only need one fan (or two depending on radiator size) on your system.

    Compared to an air cooled PC which you need a fan on the cpu, vid card, case, hard drives maybe, etc.

    More fans = more noise.
     
  10. pure

    pure New Member

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    I'd suggest having a read through

    http://www.silentpcreview.com/

    especially their recommended section:

    http://www.silentpcreview.com/section5.html

    They have recommended cases, fans, harddrives, power supplies, CPU coolers etc. endpcnoise systems are ok if you don't know how to build one but you can easily build a completely silent computer (<22 db) yourself for alot less money. Just don't expect to game on it.
     
  11. pure

    pure New Member

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    That's not entirely accurate. You can easily build an air cooled computer where the only audible noise is hard drive seek. Two case fans, one intake and one exhaust, and a power supply fan. That's it. It's just a matter of component selection.

    If you don't game it's easy. If you do then it's possible to be silent but harder, more expensive and probably not worth it.
     
  12. crontab

    crontab (uid = 0)

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    i just built my machine based off of some of silent's recommendations.


    idle... i can hear my crt monitor's high pitch (looks like it time to buy a new monitor (^_^) ) over my pc. if i set all fans to max... i can barely hear it. it's my most quiet machine so far. i have three fans in it now, and will have 4 when i get a better vid card.

    i can get it even more quiet though since the yate loons aren't as quiet as i expected them to be given that they are oem nexus'. my case's sound dampening helps a bit too.
     
  13. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Gotta love those Swiss, eh? Don't do it in the dishwasher, though; the detergent will etch the plastic.

    You can get convection watercooling, but it requires a convection tower that stands outside your case. Such things are about as practical as driving a Lamborghini to work every day.

    Those completely silent cases are basically miniature bank vaults; very well insulated, but heavy as shit and not really practical unless your office is a recording studio. You don't need fancy cooling, just good quiet fans and big heavy copper heatsinks. (If you can find ceramic heatsinks, those are even better, but that market is pretty much restricted to custom-made units sold on eBay.) The worst noise producers are the fans that come on a lot of high-end video cards; that's why I prefer to use fanless video cards with a single large fan aimed at all of the cards instead.

    Filters aren't perfect, but they're really damn good. I can't remember the last time I ran a finger across anything in my case and got more than a tiny bit of dust -- and that's after several years of daily use. Compared to the workstations at my office that have no filtering, my computer's like a clean-room on the inside.

    Stick with a regular ATX power supply. It will only make a lot of heat if the computer is pulling a lot of current and/or it's a cheap unit.

    Keep in mind that hard drives make more heat than CPUs do -- they just have more surface area to dissipate it with, that's why they don't need heatsinks. If you install more than one, you'll want to put them in a cage with a dedicated fan, and in this case you'll want the fan to blow out of the case so the heat from the hard drives doesn't make it stifling inside the case. It doesn't take much to make it work; I have a single 80mm fan blowing on 3 Raptors, and while the Raptors still get hotter than hell, the heat is isolated from the rest of the computer.

    Sounds like fun. Maybe you can set it up so the lights turn off when the screen saver is on between 11pm and 6am.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2008
  14. Kelex

    Kelex New Member

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    what will cool the cpu? heatsink w/ no fan?

    silent pc on air is doable, but most end up sacrificing performance, definitely not for gaming machines.
     
  15. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    In that configuration, the CPU fan is mounted on the side of the case and pulls air in and blows it through a duct onto the CPU heatsink. It's actually better than almost any other setup.
     
  16. Doomsday

    Doomsday XXX

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    or something the like of BTX cooling design
    like those on dell machines

    [​IMG]

    That black thing on the middle is the heatsink/duct with a 120mm fan in the front for intake
     
  17. pure

    pure New Member

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    Yes. A scythe ninja can cool a cpu with no fan. The rear case fan will draw air over the fins and cool it sufficiently. You need something like an AMD BE series but it can be done. With cool and quiet most of the time the CPU is sitting at a low power state and doesn't generate much in the way of heat.

    That's what I'm saying. On an internet/e-mail/school work PC it's easy. Using a passive 3850 you could game on it. I don't game so I don't know how effective the aftermarket passive coolers are but they are available as well if you want something better than a 3850.

    You would need a CPU fan. But with PWM fan control on a big fan and a ninja the CPU fan noise is still essentially inaudible. Power supplies start to become a problem though because of the wattage.

    If it's a gaming PC it's really not worth it to make it completely silent because when you're gaming it's loud anyways. Doesn't mean it can't be done.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2008
  18. pure

    pure New Member

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    Depends on the orientation of the fins on the heatsink. On a ninja that wouldn't work because only the top few fins are getting airflow. You need front to back airflow, not left to right airflow.
     
  19. pure

    pure New Member

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    Sorry 1 more thing re: the ninja and no cpu fan.

    http://www.silentpcreview.com/article251-page5.html

    That's with a 115 watt TDP intel processor running CPU burn. With a 45 watt TDP BE series AMD X2 with cool and quiet enabled keeping it cool with no CPU fan is dead easy.
     
  20. piratepenguin

    piratepenguin New Member

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    Thank you a lot people.

    I may as well tell you what I will be wanting from my computer. Not gaming, it should do ok-3d - I'll probably go for Intel onboard graphics, no noise from that (I would think). I WILL however need it to do quite a lot of compiling - so pretty intensive CPU work there, however with ok-airflow (but not cool enough) going on already, it would be ideal if the fans would speed up and get noiser then and only then, because otherwise I will usually be just listening to music, browsing the web with a text editor open, and sometimes watching movies with little-elso going on.

    Motherboards take care of this themselves - controlling the fans, with their sensors right? And it's reliable?

    Also, is over/under clocking doable on-the-fly?
     
  21. pure

    pure New Member

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    Most decent motherboards will support at least the CPU fan ramping up and down depending on temperature. The other fan headers may or not be controllable from within the bios or within the included mobo software. If they can't there's a program called speedfan (google it) that can handle some mobo fan headers as well.

    Worst case scenario and neither speedfan nor the motherboard can do any fan extra fan speed control you could:

    a) buy a fan speed controller, $10-20 that goes into a 5.25 inch drive bay and plug your case fans into that. Most are controlled with knobs on the front so you can leave them on low then turn them up when you're compiling. I think some come with software that will do it on the fly but I don't know for a fact.

    b) buy fans that have their own manual controls. The antec tricools have a little switch that comes out where you can select one of 3 speeds. The problem with this is that if you want to change it you need to open up your case. You might be able to route the wire outside but it's pretty short so I don't know if that's possible.

    c) a case like the antec p182 was designed from the bottom up for cool and quiet operation. I recommend it highly, triple layer side and front panels, seperate space for the power supply to isolate it's heat. I bring it up here because it comes with 3 antec tricools standard and the fan control switches are wired to the outside of the case. You'd have to reach around to the back but at least you wouldn't have to open up the case to change fan speed.

    I don't know a lick about overclocking so I can't answer anything about that.

    I don't bother underclocking/undervolting manually either so I don't know if that's possible on the fly. I just use AMD Cool and Quiet. What that means is that when the processor isn't being stressed it will dynamically reduce the voltage and speed of the CPU. I have an AMD X2 4400+ which normally runs at 2.3 ghz, but 95% of the time it's plodding along at 1.0 ghz. When I open up the monitoring utility I see it at 1.0 ghz then if I do something like open up firefox it ramps up to 2.3ghz for a split second then goes back down to 1.0ghz. The power is there when you need it but when you don't (like when you're just browsing the net or playing some music) it underclocks and undervolts automatically. Intel has Speed Step which is essentially the same thing. Unless you're super anal about saving every last watt I wouldn't bother with undervolting, just stick with Cool and Quiet/Speed Step.
     
  22. pure

    pure New Member

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    SPCR Test of the Antec P182. Components:

    Results:

    So with a hot graphics card, a raptor for a hard drive and a decent (but not great) CPU cooler and a big power supply the CPU idled at 34 degrees and peaked at 51. That's really good considering the fans were set to low speed.

    Put a Ninja in place of the butterfly, take out the graphics card, don't use a raptor and pick a 350-400 watt power supply and the temps will drop further. The graphics card which was the main source of noise too so without it you'd have a very quiet, very cool running system.
     
  23. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    nVidia chipsets can adjust clockspeed while the computer is in use.
     

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