"fuel numbers" v.clean bulking

Discussion in 'Fitness & Nutrition' started by crucialkc, Jul 29, 2006.

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  1. crucialkc

    crucialkc the earth is flat

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    Background: I weigh about 195, looking to bulk up to 220lbs. as clean as possible.

    I recently started training with a new partner and he was saying that for bulking, I should try to get ~600g of Carbs and ~350g Protein while consuming the least amount of fat possible unless they are healthy fats (omega 3's, etc)

    I have been doing this for the last few days. I've been getting the full about 350g of protein, ~450g Carbs, and ~100g Fat. It's been around 4500 cals each day.

    My question is whether or not this is a good method simply because I've never heard of it before, EVER.


    CLIFFS: bodyweight x 3 = # of grams of carbs for bulk, bodyweight x 1.75 = # of grams of protein for bulk, minimal fat intake. Good method?
     
  2. Marix

    Marix OT Supporter

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    Sounds fine, but "as little fats as possible" isn't too good. But then you said around 100g a day, which would be fine.

    Lyle McDonald (and I dont do this name-dropping business very often!) suggests 0.5g fats/lb body weight. So in your case this would be around 100g.. again, fine.

    The standards I use are:
    Protein = at least 1.5g/lb
    Fats = at least 0.5g/lb
    Carbs = however many I feel comfortable with.
     
  3. crucialkc

    crucialkc the earth is flat

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    Why does Lyle suggest wanting fat? or are these the "healthy" fats? (like from eggs, etc. not cheeseburgers)
     
  4. crucialkc

    crucialkc the earth is flat

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    so do you think 100g-150g of fat is good for clean bulking (meaning it's only coming from fish oil and from healthy foods)? keep my goal of going from 195 to 220 in mind.
     
  5. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

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    A 40% protein, 30% carb and 30% fat ratio is perfectly fine. You can swithc the % for protein and carbs if you wish, especially when bulking since you need a little bit more of it to produce an anabolic state and also because when you eat more cals you don't need as much protein as when you're dieting for example.
    Saturated fat and cholesterol intake have been correlated with testosterone levels so that's a good reason to get some.
     
  6. michael

    michael FLORIDA > *

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    my nigga.. at 195lbs, 250g should be just fine
     
  7. ralyks

    ralyks New Member

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    Especially when bulking.
     
  8. Soren

    Soren OT Supporter

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    care to post your diet? I'm interested in seeing it :)
     
  9. michael

    michael FLORIDA > *

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    results probablu woulda been the same if you halfed that :hs:
     
  10. crucialkc

    crucialkc the earth is flat

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    why is 350 too much for bulking? just curious.
     
  11. crucialkc

    crucialkc the earth is flat

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    I just started this diet so I haven't gotten it completely perfected yet, obviously. I just went over my log and my cals have actually been averaging to be more around 3500 or 4000.

    lots of tuna, brown rice, oats, skim milk, skinless chicken breast, etc
     
  12. Marix

    Marix OT Supporter

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    Carnifex said it just right. Fats are important for correct bodily function.

    Most diets which advocate low-fat are simply introducing ways of reducing calories, because fats contain the densest amount of calories. Carbs and protein both have 4 calories per g, but fats have 9 calories per gram. Theefore if you go on a low fat diet (provided you don't binge on carbs or protein), you'll probably lose weight because you're reducing overall calories.
     
  13. Marix

    Marix OT Supporter

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    Good points about the fat intake.. even saturated fat (branded the most evil by the diet magazine) has an important role.

    However, I disagree with your dietary ratio approach. Your body can't do maths so it doesn't really care about what % of total calories each macronutrient makes up. I find the Xg of protein per lb body weight method works a lot better.
    For example, if you bulk on 3000kcal and cut on 2000kcal, then following the ratio method you're actually taking in LESS protein when you cut... not necessarily a good thing IMO.
    Plus, the ratio method is usually takes a lot more planning.
     
  14. Marix

    Marix OT Supporter

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    If you're bulking, you don't have to stay on the skim milk :naughty:
     
  15. crucialkc

    crucialkc the earth is flat

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    just preference, that's all. :)
     
  16. crucialkc

    crucialkc the earth is flat

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    okay, so I should probably get about 250g protein? What about carbs? I was told to get that many carbs in me because it'll make my body "thicker".
     
  17. Marix

    Marix OT Supporter

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    ^^ Bullshit.. carbs dont make you "thicker."
    Eating a shitload, might make you hold more water though.

    Carbs can be wherever you want them, to be honest. Some people react differently to carbs, (for example carbs make some people really hungry). It doesn't really matter so long as total calories, protein and fats are okay.
     
  18. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

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    Bah, I'm not that much into the ratio but I'm pretty much just saying those ratios since they fit my cal intake pretty well. I get 200g+ of protein a day, usually around 250g though and it's about 30-40% of my daily intake since I'm eating around 3k cals. I could have said it another way but as long as there's enough protein ( anywhere between 200 and 300g), enough fat and EFAs (usually between 20-30% of my cals intake for all fats) and the rest carbs. The ratios varies from day to day though and I take a tad more carbs (around 275-300g) on training days and a little bit less on off days (200g maybe) and I get a little bit more fats.

    Carbs make you retain water. For every gram of glycogen going into your muscles, there's 3g of water. That's why there's a significant weight loss in the first day of a low-carb diet.
     
  19. RG

    RG New Member

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    carbs turn to fat :ugh:
     
  20. Marix

    Marix OT Supporter

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    That sounds fair enough, but for planning a new diet the Xg per lb rule works better IMO. It may so happen that they fall into those rations anyway, but I would never set out trying to eat a certain ratio of carbs, fats and protein in a day.. i think it would drive me crazy.


    Carbs make you retain water. For every gram of glycogen going into your muscles, there's 3g of water. That's why there's a significant weight loss in the first day of a low-carb diet.[/quote]

    Yup.. well, only once the glycogen is depleted.
     
  21. Huge Evil Robot

    Huge Evil Robot Must not sleep, must warn others

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    Diet is obviously very different from person to person, but I have found lower-carb diets work well for me- when I was using fitday, average was 40%P, 35-40%F, 20-25% C, with the fat being equally divided by type. Unless you are extremely active, you might want to cut down on carbs a bit.In fact, when I am not doing any GPP or weight training, I try to drop carbs to 5-15% of intake, unless I feel like total shit. I am in a similar position of trying to clean bulk out to 245-255, it's getting alot harder :hs:
     
  22. michael

    michael FLORIDA > *

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    <3 carbs
     
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