GUN Fix your GD grip (and maybe you'll get hits for a change).

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Clingman, Dec 7, 2007.

  1. Clingman

    Clingman Clingman runs Bartertown.

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    Fix your GD grip.

    The last three times I've been to the range the pistol lanes have been full of people. And of those probably 100 people I saw shooting pistols, not a single damn one of them had a proper grip.

    Get as high as possible on the gun, strong hand squeezes front to back, weak hand clamps the sides, thumbs pointed at the target, extended trigger finger even with weak hand thumb... FRONT SIGHT, I said FRONT SIGHT. Pad of finger on the trigger and ppreesss...

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4584332856867071363&q=ipsc
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2007
  2. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    While grip is important in being able to manage recoil and shoot quickly it has VERY little to do with accuracy.
     
  3. Gimik

    Gimik New Member

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    hrmm... I've heard both things about the finger placement on trigger (pad of finger and first joint).

    The guys that seem to like the first joint on the trigger seem to be more self defense oriented, while the pad of the finger guys are more comp/accuracy oriented.
     
  4. Clingman

    Clingman Clingman runs Bartertown.

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    OK I admit I was stretching it with the title and some of the comments :o
     
  5. cabriolet

    cabriolet ...

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    I've shot both ways, and I shoot better with my joint. I've given it plenty of time and practice both ways as well. I'll shoot how I shoot better.
     
  6. RonJeremey

    RonJeremey OT Supporter

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    :ugh::ugh::ugh: I beg to differ. It can affect accuracy in a big way(depending on just how bad their grip is), and it sure as hell affects repeatability.
     
  7. AB13

    AB13 New Member

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    With pistols I utilize 3 different grip techniques.

    With my auto's it depends on gun. With my glock I shoot with the middle of my pad, with my 1911's I shoot closer to my tip because I slap the trigger for action shooting with my 1911's. With my glock I use the Pinned trigger technique for quick double taps.

    With my Revolver, it's a totally different animal. I roll my finger for action pistols and bullseye.
     
  8. AB13

    AB13 New Member

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    I thought the same until not too long ago. One of my friends invites his buddy to shoot IDPA for the first time. He shoots with his support hand (and it's support hand, NEVER called weak hand) of his palms straight up under the magazine, old school Charlies Angles style. Me and my buddy give the :hsugh: look, but the guy was one of the most accurate shooters that day. :eek4: :rofl: So there goes that theory. :mamoru:

    He's a cool dude, I went shooting with him at the range last weekend, and for giggles I hand him my Wesson .45 with a 10 round Wilson mag sticking out of the mag well and he's all confused on how to hold it. :rofl:
     
  9. RonJeremey

    RonJeremey OT Supporter

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    I know for my students, I let them shoot a few rounds "their way" then fix their grip and let them shoot a few more round. I have yet to NOT see improvement in accuracy when you compare the two.
     
  10. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    I can shoot a one hole group with my gun upside down and my pinky finger pulling the trigger. I can shoot a one hole group with just my thumb and trigger finger holding the pistol.

    There are only 4 fundamentals of pistol marksmanship:
    1. Sight alignment
    2. Sight picture
    3. Trigger control
    4. Follow through

    That's it. Your sights have to be aligned with the target when the gun fires.

    As I wrote in my first post a good grip will help you shoot faster but it will not make you more accurate.

    While I'm at it I might as well go ahead and state that stance doesn't affect accuracy either.
     
  11. RonJeremey

    RonJeremey OT Supporter

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    While i concur whole heartedly with all of these statements, a persons grip can affect all 4 of those variables.
     
  12. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    Yes, you have to grip the pistol in such a way as to hold it steady enough to let the gun fire while the sights are aligned with the target. There are literally thousands of ways to do that. A super shitty grip can still get very accurate hits.

    The problem is people concentrate on grip as if it fixes any of their problems with the fundamentals of marksmanship. It won't.
     
  13. Dr. Fuckface

    Dr. Fuckface Wheelguns: when it absolutely, positively has to g

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    not in my experience. until I fixed my grip, I was getting the classic "lower-left" syndrome. Hand placement, and just as importantly, pressure, are extremely important.
     
  14. Dr. Fuckface

    Dr. Fuckface Wheelguns: when it absolutely, positively has to g

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    Use the pad on my Glock, first knuckle on my wheelgun.

    What I've read, it's mostly personal preference and trigger weight.
     
  15. Dr. Fuckface

    Dr. Fuckface Wheelguns: when it absolutely, positively has to g

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    Cliffs on Pinned technique?
     
  16. AB13

    AB13 New Member

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    I showed my friend Kent, this this past weekend. He was amazed how easy and cool it was. Which ruined his session because that's all he wanted to do afterwards, lol. :rofl: The look on his face was golden. This isn't exactly a "secret" technique, but it's one I employ with great success, especially with competitive action pistol and is one of my bread and butters.

    It's really basic, but if you've never done it before it'll feel different and pretty cool. You need a gun with a relatively short and "pronounced" reset, I have found guns with long resets like Ruger auto's and Kel-Tec's it's almost impossible to get smoothly. But MP's and Glocks are pretty ideal.

    You get your sight picture focusing of course on the front sight, break your shot by pulling the trigger, and rather than releasing the trigger, PIN it to the frame (aka hold it down and keep it down), allow your gun to recoil and let your front sight fall back down towards your target, quickly acquire the sight picture again BEFORE easing your trigger SLOWLY and SMOOTHLY back out (read and re-read this sentance, this is KEY) till you feel the reset (should feel like a click against your finger) and then when you "feel" that click, immediately apply a small amount of pressure back onto the trigger and break the shot again. You should fight the urge to let off the trigger to "quickly" that you go beyond your "reset" point. This demands a LOT of trigger control. You simply have to straddle the "reset point" for the best results.

    The second shot should happen so fast and easy it "surprises" you. If you do this sequence correctly, you will know EXACTLY what I mean by "surprises" you.

    I hate the term " double tap ". As stated by a shooting mentor, " it's two well aimed shots with very little time in between..." It's not just "pull the trigger twice and hope for the best...".

    Again, on paper, it sounds ghey, but try it the next time you are out and let me know how it goes. :bigthumb: This drill took me a LONG time to be able to implement in one of my matches because I'm so used to "slapping" the trigger rather than "pinning it" but it's so much faster than slapping and SO much more accurate for me than just slapping the trigger with my gun pointed at the "general direction". It forces me to focus on front sight acquisition after the first shot is broken.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2007
  17. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    The technique you describe with shooting off the reset is how I shoot my p99 and s&w autos. I'm very spoiled but how well it works and hate shooting guns with long resets like sigs now.
     
  18. AB13

    AB13 New Member

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    yeah, it may be called different things, but the official term I learned was "pinned trigger". It's a staple with LEO's and competitive shooters.

    Advanced shooters employ this to their Mozambique drill.
     
  19. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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    Depends on the shape of the trigger for my finger placement.
    I shot my Glock with the pad of my trigger finger. I shot my P2000sk with the pad of my finger. I shoot my Cougar and M&P with the joint. I know I'm not supposed to, but I just shoot those 2 better than way. :dunno:
    I've tried both ways, and the joint just works better with some guns that others. Never had a problem with accuracy. I think its more about discipline and practice than anything else.
     
  20. Clingman

    Clingman Clingman runs Bartertown.

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    Just asking... do you realize that you are arguing with the president of an appreciably-sized firearms/tactical training company?

    Shacklemenot is completely in the right, the title of this thread and some of the shit I wrote in my first post were pretty silly but they got everyone's attention. I watched Yeager put three rounds into a nickle-sized dot at 5 yards while holding the pistol like a banana with his left hand and using a sharpie marker on the trigger...
     
  21. FusionZ06

    FusionZ06 /\__/\__/\__0>

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    I can't stand when I see people start falling progressively further back with each shot. Lean in and get over it :rofl:
     
  22. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    My position shouldn't buy me a free pass but my ideas come from my training and years of experience teaching people to shoot.

    I used to believe all the bullshit about what it took to be a good shot. I now try to cut through all the crap because it only delays or derails progress.
     
  23. AB13

    AB13 New Member

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    Mind if I ask what company? Like i said earlier, my thought around this would have mirrored what was said earlier, up until I witnessed my friend shoot as well as he did with his grip. So I'm intrigued, anything you care to share?
     
  24. Thunderbear

    Thunderbear Yggdrasil's Forester.

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    The usertext should be a dead giveaway, if not the av.

    Tactical Response.

    Shay, do you know if Section8 followed up with James for a class in VA sometime within the next few months?
     
  25. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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