GUN FBI UMP40 Field Test results

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by TL1000RSquid, Jul 26, 2006.

  1. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    The F.B.I.’s D.S.U. (Division of Criminal Investigation - Domestic Security Unit) has released their scathing report on their field testing of the Heckler & Koch UMP40 Submachine Gun. In the July 18th 2006 dated report, the DSU detailed its extensive testing of 4 guns that were purchased with the intent of possibly choosing them, replacing the now-obsolete H&K MP-5/10mm Submachine Guns currently in inventory.

    The test guns were brutally abused by Special Agents, in attempts to expose any and all weaknesses of the polymer-framed pistol-caliber weapon. Dunked in mud, sand and water as well as operated dry of any lubricants resulted in acceptable percentages of weapon failure.

    It wasn’t until a 9mm service round was introduced into the barrel, 4” from the muzzle, and a .40 caliber Service cartridge was discharged resulting in a typical squibbed barrel (where a previously discharged projectile is lodged in the weapon’s barrel due to an inadequate gun powder charge of the round) did the submachine gun suffer from a catastrophic failure. The firing of the .40 caliber cartridge, into the blocked barrel, which exploded the guns chamber and destroyed its polymer receiver permanently, disabled the weapon beyond repair. Even Heckler & Koch admits that such a destroyed weapon receiver is non-repairable even for them.

    It has been H&K’s hopes that the FBI would pick up the UMP40 as their new Tactical Entry Gun, but thanks to this singular event, those hopes have been officially bashed on the head!

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    Ok sounds like it did ok, did they expect it to not blow up when they had the squib? I'de like to see what would of happend to a 10mm mp5 in the same situation.
     
  2. Thunderbear

    Thunderbear Yggdrasil's Forester.

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    sounds like those special agents are just that... SPECIAL.
     
  3. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    I want to read the report and see what it says.

    To my understanding some guns are indeed made to fail in a very specific way in the event of a squib round and another fired behind it. Keltec has ever pounded rounds into the barrel of their plr16 and fired it to try to make a catastrophic KB with no success I believe.

    If you had a choice between a gun where the mag blows out and one when the receiver turns into shrapnel I know which I'd choose.

    And I really really want one of those 10mm mp5's.
     
  4. Sssnake

    Sssnake meh

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    The main issue is, can the UMP40 be serviced by the FBI's own weaponsmiths quickly and easily so the weapon isn't a total loss. UMP with a squib is pretty much nothing but a pile of very expensive scrap. Imagine what would happen should it be on full auto when this happens.
     
  5. 01_Cruiser

    01_Cruiser An American Classic OT Supporter

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    So they jammed a 9mm round into the barrel of a .40 cal weapon, fired the gun and were suprised when it KB'd? Where the fuck would that happen in the field? I can see dropping it in the mud, sand, doodoo, whatever else, but why introduce a foreign round into a gun that it doesnt belong in? Now if they wanted to use a .40 round for a squib test, thats one thing but what they did was bullshit.
     
  6. Sssnake

    Sssnake meh

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    They jammed the 9mm in there to represent a squib that can and sometimes happens. They weren't suprised it blew up, they were suprised at how it was completely destroyed and pretty much not salvagable.

    squib testing is a standard test. A barrel can be replaced by the armorer, but a receiver that's destroyed, even to the point that the manufacturer can't repair it means that the entire gun is useless and now you have to get replacement unit instead of just repair parts.
     
  7. jeepilot

    jeepilot Banned

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    did they put just a 9mm bullet in there, or the whole cartridge? I don't see why the .40 wouldn't just push the 9mm bullet out, or still kb but be salvageable, or bulge the barrell, and not destroy the whole gun. If it was a whole 9mm cartridge, then i understand and it would be like plugging the barrell.
     
  8. THT

    THT The easy way is always mined

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    To reiterate what was already said, that's fucking retarded. Jamming a different caliber round into the barrel and seeing what happens when you send another through is a waste of a perfectly good firearm. The US government has carte blanch on in it's war on terror. Even if that were to happen to 1% of all UMP40s in service, and the government bought 50,000 at $5,000 apiece, we're talking $2.5M. Big. Fucking. Deal. Besides, when in the real world will that happen? To me it seems someone made up their mind their mind that they didn't want to use the UMP40 and failed it
     
  9. Artyboy

    Artyboy Necessity is the excuse for every infringement of

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    The design of the gun can have an effect on how bad catastrophic failures are. That's why you don't see too many KBd AKs. A flimsy plastic gun isn't going to hold up as well as a gun that's built solidly. I'd like to see how bad the 9mm and the 10mm versions do under the same conditions. Maybe it was a fluke. Or maybe that's what happens every time the UMP40 fires with a squib round in the barrel.
     
  10. Iceburn

    Iceburn Made in the USA

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    wtf a 10mm mp5? whats the diff between the 9mm?
     
  11. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    1mm? :big grin:
     
  12. soccaian

    soccaian New Member

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    it fires a 10mm cartridge
     
  13. BigBadJohn

    BigBadJohn Pay-back time OT Supporter

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    Sounds a little fishy to me. May have wanted the gun to fail
     
  14. Iceburn

    Iceburn Made in the USA

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    Really? I thought that a 10mm mp5 would shoot somthing else. Thanks for clearing that up. :squint:
     
  15. Sssnake

    Sssnake meh

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    an overpriced so so subgun and the best subgun ever.

    MP5 in 10mm was the perfect weapon
     
  16. itchiban

    itchiban New Member

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    What other subgun in production could they possibly even be considering? Short barreled M4/AR's? The article reports 4 guns tested...Give me a UMP45 ANY day.
     
  17. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    I'm with ya I'de take an UMP over most other subguns. Other things they could be testing SBR 9mm AR?, P90, MP7 :wackit: , sig551 maybe, sbr g36?
     
  18. Bigsnake

    Bigsnake OT Supporter

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    Sticking a bullet in the barrel to represent a squib shot is pretty standard in these government tests.

    I think they want to make sure the gun won't blow up to the point of serious injury to the shooter. Sounds like with the frame taking serious damage, then that could be more of a possibility.
     
  19. kill_turu_kill

    kill_turu_kill Turu the Terrible OT Supporter

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    Any ideas why they wouldn't have used a handloaded round with too little powder to cause the squib?
     
  20. Bigsnake

    Bigsnake OT Supporter

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    Probably because they want their testing procedure to be the same and repeatable different firearms. They can put the stuck bullet in the same place in all the firearms they test so it's standardized.
     
  21. Sarge21

    Sarge21 Frau am Steuer Ungeheuer!

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    That would be 250 mil there champ
     
  22. THT

    THT The easy way is always mined

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    50,000 units x $5,000 = $250M

    The 1% that failed and will require replacement: $250M x 1% = $2.5M
     
  23. kellyclan

    kellyclan She only loves you when she's drunk.

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    Yes, they did. They wanted to see what happened when it failed. They used a 9mm bullet cos it was easier than jamming a .40 bullet in the barrel, to REPRESENT a .40 squib, not to duplicate a 9mm getting loaded in a .40.

    They wanted to see what would happen and how bad. I'm sure if the barrel just burst or bulged and the receiver had not broken, the gun would have passed the test. They saying "If we got a squib on Gun A, we would have to get a new barrel for it. But on Gun B, we'd have to buy a whole new gun."
     
  24. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    This is common practice when testing weapons. It has to be able to survive a squib and be able to be easily repaired WITHOUT severely injuring or even killing the user. The MP5 squib test bulged the barrel and cracked the forward covering which is easily swapped out by an armorer. The UMP failure completely destroyed the weapon and would have severely injured the user. That is a no pass.
     
  25. Sarge21

    Sarge21 Frau am Steuer Ungeheuer!

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    ahhh.... gotcha :bigthumb:
     

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