F&N, let's talk about super-endurance and me.

Discussion in 'Fitness & Nutrition' started by GlassUser, Jan 26, 2009.

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  1. GlassUser

    GlassUser send an email not a pm OT Supporter

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    I know I don't post here much. I looked through the archives and stuff but didn't see anything targeted toward the kind of discussion I want to start.

    Here it is short and sweet: I'm again racing the texas water safari (http://www.texaswatersafari.org). I did it in 2007 and took second in my class. It was awesome. I want a much better time this year. But enough mooning - the gist is that it's a 262 mile super-endurance boat race in the middle of a Texas summer (think 110 degrees, 95% relative humidity, for three days straight). Billed to be toughest in the world, but probably on par with the yukon river quest and the watertribe everglades challenge. In my class (USCA C-1, hands down the hardest class to race in), the finish times are usually 60 to 90 hours nonstop. The current record holder finished in a nearly unbelievable 36 hours and change - he's the dude that beat me.

    Enough hemming and hawing. The point is that I would like to ask F&N about nutrition for this race. The two biggest concerns are balanced hydration (eg lots of water, lots of electrolytes) and constant feeding (if you're seriously racing, you'll burn 500-700 cal an hour, but your body can absorb maybe 300-400 when you're under this much stress).

    Some racers basically drink Spiz constantly, and supplement it with a little solid, greasy food (like a snack bag of fritos). Others ... well a couple of dudes beat a lot of professional racers in an old slow aluminum boat with naught but a huge cooler of beer. We think they were just too drunk to notice the dehydration and heat stroke. Personally, I found a mix of drink mixes, chips, jerky, and clif bars worked pretty good. But I have an open mind and am all for making things a little better.

    And for the last twist - this is a limited assistance race. All you can receive from your shore crew is ice and water. You have to start the race with everything else in your boat. Ounces make a big difference, so weight is a HUGE concern.

    So, can F&N tackle this?
     
  2. grampositivecocci

    grampositivecocci New Member

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    I'd experiment with what you can stomach throughout the race. Hydration is the most important, you can keep going when you bonk but if you become dehydrated, game over.

    I personally think I'd experiment with olive oil/salt/glucose/protein mixtures.
     
  3. GlassUser

    GlassUser send an email not a pm OT Supporter

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    You only get one shot a year at this race. I don't really want to do too much experimenting. Though, if I'm going to, 09 is the year to do it. '10 is when I challenged all the kids to run in my class.
     
  4. ralyks

    ralyks New Member

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    MRPs are packed with calories. They're powdered (fully dehydrated) so no extra weight, just mix with the water you get from your ground crew and you're good to go. Someone else should be able to chime in with a good brand.
     
  5. grampositivecocci

    grampositivecocci New Member

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    I ment to say experiment in training with what you can tolerate.

    I would also fashion a vest of some sort and make use of the crew with access to ice. Dropping your core temp will help you a lot.

    something similar too
    http://coolingvest.i4u.com.au/cooling-vests.htm

    keep the sun off as well, wear a good hat etc.

    and I'll say it again, hydration, hydration, hydration!
     
  6. GlassUser

    GlassUser send an email not a pm OT Supporter

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    Meal replacement powder? That's what Spiz is.
     
  7. ralyks

    ralyks New Member

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    :o
    I figured spiz was some sort of gatorade-type drink.
     
  8. GlassUser

    GlassUser send an email not a pm OT Supporter

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    We do both extensively. The ice makes a world of difference. We put it in terrycloth tubes and drape it over our necks, put packs in between our legs (LOTS of capillaries in the groin, and it feels soooo good to have your sweaty grody balls cooled down) and on the head under the hat (ice cold water dripping over your ears is heaven in that environment). Keeping your core temp down is serious business, and is your most limiting factor in many parts of the race.
     
  9. GlassUser

    GlassUser send an email not a pm OT Supporter

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    Naw, nobody really uses gatorade any more. Too much sugar, not enough other nutrients. At least not in the endurance races. Plenty of people use it for the shorter hour or two races.
     
  10. grampositivecocci

    grampositivecocci New Member

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    It also helps that your femoral artery runs very in close proximity to your inguinal ligament and that suck pumps a lot of blood.

    1: Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2003 Jul;6(4):427-34.[​IMG] Links
    Nutritional aspects in ultra-endurance exercise.

    Peters EM.
    Department of Physiology, Nelson Mandela Faculty of Health Sciences, University of Natal, Durban, South Africa. [email protected]
    PURPOSE OF REVIEW: Despite much current debate regarding central and peripheral neural mechanisms which may be responsible for the onset of fatigue during prolonged exercise, maintenance of nutritional and hydration status remains critical for successful participation in ultra-endurance exercise. This review focuses on substrate and fluid homeostasis during ultra-endurance exercise and the use of nutritional supplementation both as ergogenic aid and to attenuate exercise-induced immunosuppression. RECENT FINDINGS: Current evidence continues to support mandatory high carbohydrate intakes (1). before the event to maximize muscle glycogen stores, (2). during the event to prevent hypoglycaemia and (3). after the event to optimize post-event repletion of endogenous carbohydrate stores. No consistent performance benefit has yet been shown following a high-fat diet. Greater utilization of intrafascicular triglyceride stores appears to account for additional fat utilization in females. Recent trends towards excessive fluid intake have resulted in frequent reports of hyponatraemic hyperhydration in ultra-distance athletes, with greater incidence in women than in men. Carbohydrate supplementation during the event attenuates immunosuppressive hormonal and cytokine responses to ultra-endurance exercise, but may impair vitamin C absorption, while the ergogenic value of caffeine supplementation in ultra-endurance performance is currently being questioned. SUMMARY: Meeting macronutrient and fluid intake demands remains an important priority for ultra-endurance athletes. Yet these athletes are reported to present with a high incidence of disordered eating patterns during periods of training, and excessive fluid replacement strategies have resulted in an increased incidence of water intoxication with resultant central nervous system dysfunction.

    Fluid and electrolyte balance in ultra-endurance sport.

    Rehrer NJ.
    School of Physical Education and Department of Human Nutrition, Otago University, Dunedin, New Zealand. [email protected]
    It is well known that fluid and electrolyte balance are critical to optimal exercise performance and, moreover, health maintenance. Most research conducted on extreme sporting endeavour (>3 hours) is based on case studies and studies involving small numbers of individuals. Ultra-endurance sportsmen and women typically do not meet their fluid needs during exercise. However, successful athletes exercising over several consecutive days come close to meeting fluid needs. It is important to try to account for all factors influencing bodyweight changes, in addition to fluid loss, and all sources of water input. Increasing ambient temperature and humidity can increase the rate of sweating by up to approximately 1 L/h. Depending on individual variation, exercise type and particularly intensity, sweat rates can vary from extremely low values to more than 3 L/h. Over-hydration, although not frequently observed, can also present problems, as can inappropriate fluid composition. Over-hydrating or meeting fluid needs during very long-lasting exercise in the heat with low or negligible sodium intake can result in reduced performance and, not infrequently, hyponatraemia. Thus, with large rates of fluid ingestion, even measured just to meet fluid needs, sodium intake is vital and an increased beverage concentration [30 to 50 mmol/L (1.7 to 2.9 g NaCl/L) may be beneficial. If insufficient fluids are taken during exercise, sodium is necessary in the recovery period to reduce the urinary output and increase the rate of restoration of fluid balance. Carbohydrate inclusion in a beverage can affect the net rate of water assimilation and is also important to supplement endogenous reserves as a substrate for exercising muscles during ultra-endurance activity. To enhance water absorption, glucose and/or glucose-containing carbohydrates (e.g. sucrose, maltose) at concentrations of 3 to 5% weight/volume are recommended. Carbohydrate concentrations above this may be advantageous in terms of glucose oxidation and maintaining exercise intensity, but will be of no added advantage and, if hyperosmotic, will actually reduce the net rate of water absorption. The rate of fluid loss may exceed the capacity of the gastrointestinal tract to assimilate fluids. Gastric emptying, in particular, may be below the rate of fluid loss, and therefore, individual tolerance may dictate the maximum rate of fluid intake. There is large individual variation in gastric emptying rate and tolerance to larger volumes. Training to drink during exercise is recommended and may enhance tolerance.
     
  11. grampositivecocci

    grampositivecocci New Member

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    you sound like you have it sorted though man, I recommend posting on some super enduro sites. We lift heavy shit here.
     
  12. RICK RO$$

    RICK RO$$ Active Member

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    I don't bop I do the money dance
    That sounds fucking miserable but badass, I bet the feeling when you're done is great.

    Good luck man, thats hardcore.
     
  13. GlassUser

    GlassUser send an email not a pm OT Supporter

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    I used to do that. I blew both my knees. Fuck that shit now.
     
  14. GlassUser

    GlassUser send an email not a pm OT Supporter

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    It's a pretty much incredible finish. It was the most miserable three days I can remember in a long time, but I'm itching to do it again. Neither my original teachers nor any of my peers have even attempted it in the class I raced in my first time. I'm kinda proud of that.
     
  15. GlassUser

    GlassUser send an email not a pm OT Supporter

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    good stuff, I'll have to pull them when I'm not so tired I can't read the abstracts.
     
  16. Uglybob69

    Uglybob69 I miss beer.

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    If you need the full texts I can probably get them through my university.

    Also, perhaps glycogen supercompression may be a good idea so you have more of a backup. This is just a "what if" because I don't know anything about ultra-endurance. I watched a show on it once and the guy was just pounding pizza and chocolate milk while running 100 miles :rofl:
     
  17. ccrooks

    ccrooks New Member

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    power gel would probably be good
     
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