F&N, let's talk about Insulin...

Discussion in 'Fitness & Nutrition' started by KenKaniff, May 30, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. KenKaniff

    KenKaniff Guest

    I've been reading more and more about insulin , with regards to nutrient transfer and what not.

    What are some supps that I can take that can boost insulin response post work out?

    Anything regarding insulin is welcome, I'm really interested as to how I can apply this in my current diet :wiggle:
     
  2. GTLifter

    GTLifter Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Messages:
    62,453
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Durty Durty ATL Niggah
    umm....supplementing your insulin is a really bad idea....


    I have a buddy who is diabetic and offered to supply me so I did some research. Needless to say I turned the offer down because from the small amount of research I did I determined it could fuck you up bad real quick.


    As far as increasing your own production I have no clue.
     
  3. Ceaze

    Ceaze https://hearthis.at/DoYouEvenUplift Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2000
    Messages:
    64,990
    Likes Received:
    690
    carbs, leucine
     
  4. KenKaniff

    KenKaniff Guest

    I've read somewhere, that taking some ALA mixed with creatine and 60-100grams of simple carbs post-workout, can up your insulin response to increase protein synthesis and nutrient uptake. Any truth to that?
     
  5. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2002
    Messages:
    5,188
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Great White North
    Insulin is released by your body when there's a raise in blood sugar. Any carbs will make it raise, protein raises it a little bit and fat has no effect on insulin. If you want to have a general idea, the higher the Glycemic Index of a food, the higher will be the insulin release, thus favoring an anabolic state. There are some exceptions to this such as milk and dairy products and that's why they created an Insulin Index, but the GI of a food is a good indicator usually. Milk elicits a greater response than it should, so it's perfect to raise insulin without getting too much cals.
     
  6. KenKaniff

    KenKaniff Guest

    :cool:
     
  7. Ceaze

    Ceaze https://hearthis.at/DoYouEvenUplift Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2000
    Messages:
    64,990
    Likes Received:
    690
    I don't think you have much of an understanding how insulin works
     
  8. DCyamaha

    DCyamaha O-line found

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    20,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    anytown, usa
    in for one of ceaze's great articles
     
  9. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2002
    Messages:
    5,188
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Great White North
    Carbs also help creatine go into your muscles after a workout (because sugar will go there to replenish glycogen stores I think). Fructose (which is sugar found in fruits) tend to have a lower GI and not replenish glycogen stores. Something with another type of sugar is better. You should get your cheats post-workout or maybe combine the good and the bad : eat a cookie or something as your PWO carb.
     
  10. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2002
    Messages:
    5,188
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Great White North
    Maybe not, that's what I understood. Correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  11. Ceaze

    Ceaze https://hearthis.at/DoYouEvenUplift Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2000
    Messages:
    64,990
    Likes Received:
    690
    i was talking to Ken
     
  12. jared_IRL

    jared_IRL OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    17,726
    Likes Received:
    51
    Boosting Insulin Post Workout:

    Our bodies use carbohydrates (CHO) as fuel to obtain energy (ATP and heat). Dietary carbohydrates consist of starches (found in bread, rice, pasta, and potatoes), fruits, beans, and milk.
    Carbohydrates may be simple sugars (six-carbon monosaccharides, principally glucose, galactose and fructose), oligosaccharides (chains of two to ten simple sugars), or polysaccharides (larger polymers of glucose or other simple sugars).
    Polysaccharides occur in starches; disaccharides are found in milk (lactose) and table sugar (sucrose). The monosaccharide fructose is the sugar found in fruits.
    It is important to note that only simple sugars can be absorbed. All carbohydrates are digested by intestinal enzymes into only three simple sugars: glucose, galactose, and fructose. These are absorbed across the intestinal mucosa and transported via the portal vein to the liver.
    During the post-workout phase of training our bodies are in a hypoglycemic stage. Blood sugar and insulin levels have drastically dropped. Immediately following exercise natural GH concentrations struggle to increase as insulin levels try to rebound from its current highly catabolic state.
    A high GI carbohydrate supplement combined with the post-workout window of opportunity will give immediate rise to blood glucose levels and cause a state of hyperglycemia. This will force an increase in the production of insulin! In other words high GI carbohydrates will lay the smack down on cortisol production.
    The newly increased quantity of insulin in the blood will drive much needed glucose and amino acids through the receptor sites in the muscle cell at an increased rate.
    These elevated stages of blood glucose will begin causing further secretions of Growth Hormone, the key hormone responsible for producing Insulin Growth factor.
    Why high GI carbohydrates? Increased absorption rates, and an abruptly induced insulin burst. The faster you can get glucose into your bloodstream and muscles, the less protein destroyed and the more glycogen stored.
    This is the one time of the day when you want to stay clear of low GI carbohydrate sources. Complex and fibrous carbs simply take way too long to digest and will not give optimal insulin release to offset muscle catabolism.


    You also want to stay far away from any fat and fructose sources post-workout. Fructose will not replenish muscle glycogen but rather will replenish liver glycogen. Fat severely delays digestion because it metabolically requires so many more processes to break down.
    Another vital key to post-workout nutrition is insulin sensitivity. Creating stronger insulin sensitivity is the primary way to get the most out of your post-workout high GI carbohydrate intake.


    Only certain types of carbohydrates will replenish muscle glycogen in the manner in which we seek. These are carbohydrates in the form of glucose and dextrose.




    The basis of our high GI carbohydrates (post-workout) should come from sources that register high on the glycemic index. Dextrose or Maltodextrin are the two sources of high GI carbohydrates that are to be ingested post-exercise in equal 50/50 proportions.


    Taken from: http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/windowofopportunity.php
     
  13. Ceaze

    Ceaze https://hearthis.at/DoYouEvenUplift Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2000
    Messages:
    64,990
    Likes Received:
    690
    abcbodybuilding isn't a credible source
     
  14. jared_IRL

    jared_IRL OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    17,726
    Likes Received:
    51
    No?

    I was a member there back in the day, but there was a lot of BS going around, so I bailed.

    But I always figured their scientific info was pretty close to spot on.

    Is what I posted in regards to Insulin wrong?
     
  15. Ceaze

    Ceaze https://hearthis.at/DoYouEvenUplift Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2000
    Messages:
    64,990
    Likes Received:
    690
    the part about GH is wrong
     
  16. DatacomGuy

    DatacomGuy is moving to Canada

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2002
    Messages:
    16,546
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Cookie? Is that really the best suggestion?

    I have always eaten a banana or a slice of wheat bread..
     
  17. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2002
    Messages:
    5,188
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Great White North
    Not, it's not the best suggestion, but if you were to eat a cookie or any type of processed sugary food, PWO would be the best time to take it since it would minimize the negative effects ("minimize" doesn't mean that it's the best option...) It's the best time to take carbs and high GI foods are perfect after a workout but eating clean (a banana for example) is always a better option.
     
  18. DatacomGuy

    DatacomGuy is moving to Canada

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2002
    Messages:
    16,546
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
  19. jared_IRL

    jared_IRL OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    17,726
    Likes Received:
    51
    a cookie? Wheat bread?

    are you guys serious?

    Please read the info I posted above. Even if there are some small discrepencies that Ceaze noticed, the idea is right, and the principles are solid.

    Speaking of those discrepencies, Ceaze, could you clear something up for me...

    What's wrong with the GH statements?

    Are you saying that GH levels don't drop post workout? Or that elevated blood glucose doesn't increase GH levels, or that GH doesn't aid in producing IGF.

    I'm trying to do some research, but everything I come across backs up all three of these statements...

    Also, any input on the post workout meals some of these guys are eating? Wheat bread? Cookies?
     
  20. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2002
    Messages:
    5,188
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Great White North
    Post workout = carb, preferably high GI to create an insulin spike and favor an anabolic state so that protein is used to build muscles and also to replenish depleted glycogen stores. So yeah, 25 g of fast absorbed protein (whey and amino acids is good) + 25-50 g of carbs is usually proposed but fructose doesn't really create an insulin spike and isn't really good to replenish glycogen stores. So if you want to eat a fruit, eat something that has little fructose. Maltodextrine and dextrose are recommended since they elicit a great spike.
     
  21. Ceaze

    Ceaze https://hearthis.at/DoYouEvenUplift Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2000
    Messages:
    64,990
    Likes Received:
    690
    "it is the change in plasma pH that induces a GH response (which is more valuable for lipolysis than it is muscle growth). Both buffering agents and post-wo carbs will blunt the GH response. If your goal is to lean out, avoid both. If your goal is to increase muscle mass, you need the carbs. The GH response at this point loses significance." -Elzi Volk
     
  22. PurEvl

    PurEvl going out gassed and not half assed...

    Joined:
    May 15, 2002
    Messages:
    24,248
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    in a BFI container down an alley
    im willing to bet im the only guy on this whole board thats ever ACTUALLY used insulin :rofl:
     
  23. ccrooks

    ccrooks New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    60,221
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    south bay, southern cali
    so, in short, if you're trying to lean out, avoid post-workout carbs?
     
  24. jared_IRL

    jared_IRL OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    17,726
    Likes Received:
    51
    Gotta love conflicting info on the internet... (Ceaze, i'd value your input here...)

    As per Dr. John Berardi (bodybuilding.com, T-Nation, etc.)

    Q: According to several nutrition "experts," eating carbs after a workout will significantly reduce the growth hormone response to exercise, not to mention the other anabolic hormones. You recommend a carb and protein drink immediately after training, even when dieting. Won't that negate the GH response I've worked so hard to generate during my workout and negatively affect my fat loss?
    A: This question brings up a couple of interesting points that need to be addressed once and (hopefully) for all.
    First, I want to talk about the GH response to exercise - it's just not all that spectacular. While I think a healthy GH response after exercise is good, I don't think it will make or break your fat loss efforts. Check out this data...
    • While the GH increase from training is pretty big in untrained subjects (10 fold increase), it's not quite as big in trained guys (4-5 fold increase) (1,2,3,4).
    • Either way, the GH increase is very brief. It's at its peak immediately after exercise, is double about 15 minutes after exercise, and is back down to baseline at 30-60 minutes after exercise (2,3).
    • The GH release you get during the first few hours of sleep time is about a 20-fold increase in GH, while the normal GH pulses that occur during the day are between 10 and 15 fold (5). Not only are these pulses larger than the post-exercise pulse, but they last longer, too (1-3 hours).
    So, hopefully from that data, you see that even if carbs did decrease the GH response to exercise, you're not missing out on all kinds of fat loss. GH pulses after exercise are small, very brief and inferior to normal daily GH pulses.
    So if you had to make the choice, would you be willing to sacrifice muscle tissue in the hopes of trying to maintain what amounts to be a minor increase in GH? I didn't think so!
    Guess what, though. You don't have to make the choice. Here's the kicker...
    Carbs DO NOT decrease the normal GH pulse after exercise!
    I don't know how or why this myth got started, but it's gotta be dropped. Maybe the myth exists because a few endurance studies showed that infusing or drinking carbs DURING endurance exercise increased blood insulin and decreased blood GH (6,7). But how relevant is that to weight trainers and to the post-workout period?
    Actually, according to 2 studies, a post-workout meal of carbs and protein INCREASED the post-workout GH release when compared to fasting after the workout (2, 8). In the first study, a 50-g protein plus 100-g carb drink taken after training increased GH response to exercise vs. no beverage. In addition, in the second study, a 1.06 g/kg carb plus 0.4 g/kg protein beverage stimulated better GH release over the next 6 hours vs. no beverage. So much for the post-workout GH myth; it looks like post-workout nutrition actually can enhance the GH release so many cherish.
     
  25. trancezj

    trancezj New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Messages:
    31,224
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    avery
    O'rly?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page