European Diesel Decline Has Begun

Discussion in 'OT Driven' started by TriShield, Jul 17, 2008.

  1. TriShield

    TriShield Super Moderator® Super Moderator

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    Not the bargain it once was

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    The decline of the diesel market penetration in Europe has begun, and for solid economic reasons. With diesel now costing the same as gasoline in Germany (we should be so lucky) the higher up-front costs of most diesel versions just doesn't pan out. Auto, Motor und Sport (print version only) has done an analysis of the minimum km per year required to amortize various diesel versions of popular cars.

    A few examples: 38k km (23k miles) for the BMW X-5; 30k km (18.3k miles) for the Opel Corsa, 25k km (15.3k miles for the MB E-class). Market share of diesels dropped in May to 44 percent, from 47 percent in April. At this rate, the study predicting diesels will lose fully half their market share in Europe are well on track. Another study shows that at least one-fourth of current German diesel drivers are seriously considering switching to a gas car with their next purchase.
     
  2. BLoG

    BLoG Scented Meat

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    i still want the 68mpg diesel fiesta
     
  3. Tecca Boss

    Tecca Boss Active Member

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    hell yeah motherfucker
     
  4. viper966

    viper966 Eat a Bag of Dicks

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    the trucking industry over there is going nuts... 10 dollar a gallon diesel would WRECK prices here
     
  5. camaudio

    camaudio TALL. WHITE. BAIT. OT Supporter

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    in for hyrdrogen powered big rigs
     
  6. I still want a diesel car
     
  7. MrRyan

    MrRyan Gary Johnson 2016 OT Supporter

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    I was thinking the other day what it would be like if we mandated similar sized / weighted trucks over here than they have over there...
     
  8. the trucks over here are very regulated size and weight wise
     
  9. wagner

    wagner Disallowed words OT Supporter

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    it's sad really, finally we have awesome diesel cars but they no longer make sense :wtc:
     
  10. TheRemains

    TheRemains If I sound disrespectful, it's only because you're

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    that's cause you're on the wrong side of the fence
     
  11. entropy138

    entropy138 OT Supporter

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    Their infastructure doesn't support large trucks like we can here. You make the trucks smaller they'll just have to increase the quantity of deliveries which will really cost more. The gas savings from downsizing rigs and going from 5mpg to 8mpg won't offset the need to bring the same # of goods via 2 loads. You'll spend more money and waste more fuel in the long run.
     
  12. RonJeremey

    RonJeremey OT Supporter

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  13. Letifo

    Letifo Moderator

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    why are diesel cars more expensive than comparable gas cars? Is it just an economy of scale thing? or were they priced higher since they were cheaper to drive and thus more attractive? If the latter that's easiliy worked on, the first one, not as much, but yeah.
     
  14. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    It'll never happen. Hydrogen has 1/4 the energy density of gasoline, and 1/5 the energy density of diesel. You'd need a tank as big as the cab to store enough hydrogen to get anywhere.
     
  15. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    The parts are put under higher stress, which means they have to be built stronger. That makes them more expensive. Add to that the extra emissions controls needed for diesels (ammonia injection, particle filters, etc.) and you end up with a more complicated and expensive system.

    The irony is that a 50/50 blend of diesel and veggie oil burns as clean as gasoline and still gets better MPG, but nobody over there wants to waste good crops making fuel oil.
     
  16. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    What is this shit about "omg I'll have to drive my BMW for 15000 miles to pay off the cost of the diesel engine"? That's nothing. That's a couple years of driving. This is so not even worth paying attention to.

    All that shit about rising diesel prices aside, Europe still has a more robust energy infrastructure than the USA has. If diesel gets more expensive, more people will buy gasoline cars. If gasoline gets more expensive, more people will run their cars on propane instead. They're not locked into a single fuel like the USA is, which means that the price of one fuel can't have a monopolistic effect on the market like it does here.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2008
  17. art_VW_shark

    art_VW_shark OT Supporter

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  18. Diesel Fumes

    Diesel Fumes Guest

    where tf is the source?
     
  19. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    I've got an even better idea. PUT MORE SHIT ON TRAINS.
     
  20. Diesel Fumes

    Diesel Fumes Guest

    The rail system carries enough as it is. The problem is that it costs more money to have more people handle it. People want something cheaply and its usually always cheapest to have it directly trucked. So it costs money to ship it by rail, then you pay someone to take it off the rail and truck it somewhere.

    Also train yards are an environmental nightmare. Cleaning it up would put a huge stress on the infrastructure.

    I refuse to believe that diesel tech is declining. Its only a matter of time before mass produced biofuels will power the remaining machinery that can only run on internal combustion. Semi trucks, large equipment, planes? rockets? We are in a shift right now away from internal combustion, but the diesel engine will fight to remain in cars until the end. Id argue that it's superior to a spark ignition style of engine.
     
  21. art_VW_shark

    art_VW_shark OT Supporter

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    elaborate on propane
     
  22. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    The Italians turned to liquid propane conversion kits during the oil crisis in the 70's. A lot of them never turned back. Their cars have your standard propane-grill tanks sitting in their trunks, and instead of a fuel pump, the pressure from the propane tank itself forces the propane gas into the intake.

    A lot of their buses (the ones that don't use overhead electric wires, anyway) also run on natural gas. Granted, CNG isn't propane, but it's similar technology.
     
  23. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    You're missing the point. It doesn't matter how dirty trainyards are (and European trainyards are not nearly as dirty as ours since they actually spend money to make their trains work well), trains are still ridiculously fuel-efficient compared to trucks. I don't know if you've seen the ads for Norfolk Southern, but they make the point that a diesel locomotive can carry 2000lbs of cargo 425 miles on 1 gallon of fuel. Obviously that only works if there's a LOT of cargo riding on a single train, but so what? That's the concept of economies of scale for you. Just imagine how much less fuel we'd burn if we got rid of all the long-haul 18-wheelers that get 5 miles to the gallon.

    The ONLY reason it costs less to truck goods cross-country is because the Teamsters take pay cuts in exchange for guaranteed business.
     
  24. art_VW_shark

    art_VW_shark OT Supporter

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    haha that's crazy! hasn't demand for propane caused a reactive price increase, though?
     
  25. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    LPG and CNG are renewable, and most oil rigs actually burn off the CNG they collect instead of piping it back to shore, so I doubt it's possible for the existing CNG/LPG-powered equipment in the world to outstrip the available supply.

    I'm sure it did kick up the price, but we're talking like $1.00/gal for LPG anyway, so anything is better than the cost of gasoline.
     

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