GUN EDU: How to set up a trust for NFA Items

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Keesh, Aug 19, 2008.

  1. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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    Step 1: Install Quicken Will Maker. Click on the Example Links for screen shots.


    Step 2: Fill in your full legal name and hit next. You want to select 'Estate Planning" and choose 'Living Trust - Basic Trust.' Hit Create Document and then choose your state of residence.

    EX 1
    EX 2



    Step 3 Naming Trustees: You need to name a couple people who will manage the property after your incapacitation. There also need to be three people who can decide whether or not you are mentally fit to manage the property. This is more for things like old ladies leaving their dogs $15 million. One recommendation is to name one or two doctors you trust, if you plan on transferring all of your firearms to your trust. (Make sure you put their full names, not just Mom, or Dad ;))

    EX 3
    EX 4



    Step 4 Listing Trust Property: This is all pretty self explanatory. Since NFA stuff doesn't have a deed or a title, all you need to do is add the info (serial Number, manufacture, model, caliber, whatever) and Will Maker will print out a form when you are finished so you can transfer it. More on that later.

    EX 5
    EX 6
    EX 7



    Step 5 Beneficiaries: Because I will only be putting NFA stuff into the trust, I chose to distribute all items to one or more beneficiaries. If you click on the icon with the stick figures, you can add the people you've already used. For me, I put my father down as my first beneficiary and my mother as my alternate beneficiary in case my father passes away first. You can put down whoever you want, just make sure it's someone you trust. Another thing to make it easier is if you name people older than 35.


    Step 6 Contact Info: This part is easy, just list addresses, emails, phone numbers so in case of your incapacitation, the people you named in your trust can be contacted.

    EX 8
    EX 9



    Step 7 Preview and Print: OK, you're done with the computer part and almost ready to fill out your Form 1/Form 4! Right now, this is a very basic trust, but it's good enough for NFA stuff, probably unsatisfactory for anything else. Export it to MS word and read over it to make sure it says what you want it to say. I only changed one part and that was in Section 2. I changed it from "The grantor may add property to the trust. " to “The grantor may add or remove property to or from the trust.” This is just in case I decide to sell any of my NFA stuff. Print out the whole document and move onto the next step.

    EX 10


    Step 8 Transferring NFA Items to your trust:Once you've listed the item (say an AR-15 receiver for a SBR project) in your trust, Will Maker will print out the Assignment of Property Document.

    Step 9 Getting your Trust notarized: Take your trust to a bank, courthouse, wherever you have a notary, pay a small fee and you're done.

    You now have a trust and you can proceed to filling out your Form 1 or Form 4.

    Sidenote: I'm not a lawyer so this is just a rough guide that will produce a trust good enough for NFA stuff. If there's anything I missed, please let me know.
     
  2. Cannondale

    Cannondale OT Supporter

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    Sorry to sound like a noob, but why do you have to do all this to buy NFA items? I thought it was a matter of forking over the money.
     
  3. david_4x4

    david_4x4 New Member

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    Because it's either create a trust and skip the finger prints, photos, and CLEO signature. Or go the CLEO etc route.

    Some folks have trouble getting the sigs. So they buy through a trust or corp.
     
  4. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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    Well, there are two options, you can get the chief LEO to sign off on your item pay to get your fingerprints and then send all that stuff off with a $200 check to the ATF, or you can create a trust fill out your Form 1 or Form 4 and send it off with your $200 check. If your CLEO won't sign off on the NFA item then another other option is to do a trust. Personally I think the trust is a lot easier, even though my CLEO will sign off on stuff.
     
  5. Willie J

    Willie J New Member

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    Some counties won't sign off on NFA weapons (ie harris county). Setting up a trust lets you bypass the CLEO sign-off and only you and the ATF know of your NFA weapsons.
    Also if you were to die, you couldn't just hand down a SBR, silencer, or a machine gun if you went the standard route. By making a trust you can name family members, therefore having a family trust would all anyone with their name on it to legally possess NFA items listed
     
  6. SnakeEater

    SnakeEater OT Supporter

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    if i ever start getting into NFA stuff,this is the route i`m going to take
    thanks for the type up man
     
  7. Ebtromba

    Ebtromba Active Member

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  8. thedude11

    thedude11 New Member

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    Can trustees be added to a trust after it is created?

    Edit: Only people listed on the trust are allowed to have access to the NFA items, correct?
     
  9. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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    Yes, I believe they can added later, but I'm not 100%

    NFA items can only be accessed when you, the grantor, are present. As far as I know, beneficiaries cannot have access to it. I believe forming a corporation will allow you to list multiple people that may use NFA items when you are not present but there is a yearly fee. Personally, I don't think I'd feel comfertable with people using my shit when I'm not around, so it doesn't bother me.
     
  10. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    Wives, people. Husbands and wives. I would want my wife to be able to take OUR stuff out to shoot if I weren't home, or were dead or incapacitated. Or, to be able to sell our stuff to pay for medical expenses if I were incapacitated.
     
  11. thedude11

    thedude11 New Member

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    That and very capable brothers, in my case.
     
  12. Dumbstixlars

    Dumbstixlars Ron Paul/AR-15/Glock/old car/Scooby/R/C croo OT Supporter

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    Good write up, solves a lot of the mystery. :bigthumb:
     
  13. skeletor25rs

    skeletor25rs Yetis & Deer

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    Thanks. I'm glad someone finally did a complete write up. This is the way I'll be going also.
     
  14. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    1) Pay $500 and talk to a lawyer and let them do it for you

    as much as the ATF changes its rules and opinions, why do people trust a $50 piece of software :rofl:
     
  15. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    i mean, if it wasn't the ATF, sure it would be fine

    but even a lawyer makes me uneasy :o

    atf fucks anyone and everyone - trusts are "uncharted" territory, i wouldn't trust eLawyers opinions on how trusts work :hs:

    You plan to cough up $200 per stamp for your toys, you can afford a lawyer.
     
  16. david_4x4

    david_4x4 New Member

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    I dont pay shit for software and take the 5mins for a judge to give me her autograph.
     
  17. A96HondaAccordCoupeEX

    A96HondaAccordCoupeEX Silver Member

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    how much does a standard sound suppressor cost?
     
  18. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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    I have yet to see anyone get fucked by the ATF from using WillMaker to make a trust, and there are a lot of people that use it. I know a couple guys that have taken their Willmaker trust to lawyers and the lawyers said it was fine.

    You send the ATF pages from your trust before you take possession or manufacture the NFA item, so if they deem it to be unsatisfactory, they simply will deny you.
     
  19. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    I think the contention is that the ATF will, in ATF fashion, LATER decide to change its fickle mind, much like a woman trying to pick what to wear on a date. Only, the ATF doesn't go on dates, it sneaks around at night and rapes you in an alley.
     
  20. A96HondaAccordCoupeEX

    A96HondaAccordCoupeEX Silver Member

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    I dont get it, why does a trust or corporation bypass the whole fingerprinting/signing and shit?
     
  21. skeletor25rs

    skeletor25rs Yetis & Deer

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    Because the Corp/Trust owns the weapon, and they don't have fingerprints.



    It is ridiculous that your spouse can't have access to them when getting NFA items the normal way.
     
  22. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    The important word.

    The agent reviewing your paperwork isn't a lawyer, they can't verify the trust is setup properly. Not that I don't think trusts are fine, you just better be paying a lawyer to review it all and make sure you are kosher.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2008
  23. 4fifths

    4fifths God of Bartons

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  24. Initial E

    Initial E New Member

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    no kidding

    I was in and out in seconds.



    I will have instructions to transfer on Form 5 for my family members with my original stamp. This will be helluva lot easier than a god damn trust.
     
  25. vwpilot

    vwpilot New Member

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    But in the case of NFA stuff, they cant simply change the rules. The rules have been established through the Act, the ATF did not create the rules and cant change them. The only way is to actually amend the NFA. That is why the tax price is still $200. When the NFA was introduced, $200 was a HUGE amount of money and therefore kept most from owning the weapons. Now in the 21st century, its not that much and therefore the race for NFA weapons has been in full swing for years.

    A trust is a trust. When its established properly that is that. The NFA says that trusts can own NFA weapons. Therefore, as long as the trust was done properly the NFA protects you and it cant be taken away.

    Also, for some of us, we simply cant get the 5 minute signature. In MD, the state police are the ones that are considered the CLEO and you cannot get a CLEO or judge signature to be valid in the state. It takes a minimum of two additional weeks for the state police to approve and sign off NFA items, along with a fee of something like $35 to handle the cost of fingerprinting you which can only be done in the main state police hq in Baltimore. So if you live in S. MD, you're in for a couple hour drive just to go get printed, then a few more weeks and a fee before you even send your info off to the ATF.

    So its not a simple little thing to get done in some places and the trust makes much more sense.

    I dont fear the trust.
     

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