Economy muscle :)

Discussion in 'OT Driven' started by 8bit, Oct 11, 2008.

  1. 8bit

    8bit Member

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    Whatever happened to the proactive Detroit that tackled the fuel crisis head on. A generation ago GM and Ford introduced radically different versions of the Mustang and Trans Am with small turbo engines. However, the new Camaro will get the 6.2 liter LS3, so I suppose GM are resigned to this being a niche vehicle.:hs:

    [​IMG]

    Bandit's Turbo Bird

    [​IMG]
     
  2. TriShield

    TriShield Super Moderator® Super Moderator

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    Uh, neither of those cars were fast or frugal. Both of them sucked major ass and are poster children of just how godawful the malaise automotive era was.

    The LS3's efficiency is simply off the charts and something manufacturers could only dream of back then.
     
  3. z284pwr

    z284pwr OT Supporter

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    I'm going to have to agree.

    The LSx engine, whether you like it or not, is a rather impressive engine.

    That '80 Turbo Trans-Am engine was total dog shit :ugh:
    The '89 Turbo Trans-Am shits all over the '80 T/A
     
  4. art_VW_shark

    art_VW_shark OT Supporter

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    it seems detroit knows they need to pack not just fuel economy, but fun too, to sell cars
     
  5. Mitchj

    Mitchj OT Supporter

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    um, have you seen how efficient LS engines are? I drive a 6 cylinder car currently due to insurance reasons, i know if i upgraded to a manual LS1/2/3 on the highway it would actually use less fuel.
     
  6. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    I would get 50% better mileage with almost any LSx compared to my three liter, AND I would be making almost twice the power...
     
  7. matrix243

    matrix243 My body, is ready.

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    yep, polishing pays. eventually,
     
  8. art_VW_shark

    art_VW_shark OT Supporter

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    no doubt, the LSx series is a lot of win. hp/liter could be better though:mamoru:
     
  9. maxxpower

    maxxpower OG Lauren Crew - Observer OT Supporter

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    i love american muscle, give me any v8 car from late 60's through 70's.
    But, the problem is american car companies keep trying to compete with each other.

    Really, we didnt need a new camaro, mustang or challenger. We need an american version of the civic that I can buy knowing that it will be as reliable, economical and retain its value.
    So far, they have failed.

    They do however, know how to make trucks and they got it down perfect.
     
  10. maxxpower

    maxxpower OG Lauren Crew - Observer OT Supporter

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    what would be nice... build a small exotic with twin turbo lsx :)
     
  11. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    stock it's pretty bad, but it isn't like it's locked into that ratio :dunno:
     
  12. GammaRadiation

    GammaRadiation Active Member

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    People driving heavier cars than my truck with ls2's with their foot to the floor are getting better MPG than my with my 3.0l v6 and easy driving.
     
  13. art_VW_shark

    art_VW_shark OT Supporter

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    under that logic the B series honda motors are the best in the world, no?
     
  14. Mitchj

    Mitchj OT Supporter

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    don't even bring up that ricer shit
     
  15. Mitchj

    Mitchj OT Supporter

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    and by ricer shit, i mean hp/L not honda b series motors.
     
  16. Corz

    Corz ha ha! snikt

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    its all about hp to weight, not litre
     
  17. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    this too. HP/L is nice, but honestly I care more about hp/gal, hp/lb, and what the torque curve looks like.
     
  18. Mitchj

    Mitchj OT Supporter

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    hp/mpg is a good one.

    Ford's 5.4L DOHC v8 here uses more fuel than "Holdens" 6.2 LS3 and produces similar power, with a shit torque curve, not to mention its a heavy iron block piece of shit and kills the weight distribution :rofl:. It's much slower.
     
  19. art_VW_shark

    art_VW_shark OT Supporter

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    that is by and far more valid, but from technology standpoint, hp/L is not moot...
     
  20. Mitchj

    Mitchj OT Supporter

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    but its not really a useful argument, as most engines that make high hp/L are very peaky anyway
     
  21. shut the fuck up

    hp/l is a retarded arguement. By that logic the motor on my lawn mower is the greatest engine ever

    here it is
    5hp
    40cc (thats .04L if my math is correct)

    which yeilds a hp/L of 125. Thats even better than the godly S2000 engine. Plus my mower runs on regular unleaded and doesnt need shit for maintenance

    Hell, know that I see that I guess Ill go bore and stroke my lawn mower to 6L and run a 750 HP motor in my car. But hell if its still on 87 octane Ill boost the fucker and hit 1000hp easy.


    But most people know it doesnt work that way. hp/L is a retarded arguement. So please, stop using it.
     
  22. GammaRadiation

    GammaRadiation Active Member

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    :hsugh:

    any 40cc 5hp motor is likely a modified 2 stroke. Your B&S 5hp motor is closer to 180cc.

    125hp/liter is moderate when it comes to high strung, small engines.

    Formula 1 engines are considered the pinnacle of technology in piston engines. A 2.4l engine producing 740hp.... Over 300hp/litre.

    Lets not even get into wankle engines.

    So, from a practical standpoint, hp/lb and hp/mpg more important. From a technological standpoint, hp/l is a greater achievement. For fucks sake, the LS series engines are great engines but they are still using pushrods.
     
  23. Mitchj

    Mitchj OT Supporter

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    and since they are lighter engines than their competitors, using less moving parts, whilst still getting better fuel consumption and power, how is this an issue?
     
  24. GammaRadiation

    GammaRadiation Active Member

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    I didnt say anything bad about them. The argument is technology.

    It was a rebuttal to an ignorant attack against someone saying that hp/liter is a technological achievement.

    Less moving parts does not equal greater economy. It equals less failure points. Though, there are plenty of OHC and DOHC engines that are just as good at being workhorses.

    The LS series is good in the hp/lb ratio because they are aluminum.

    There are aluminum B-series blocks, scraping nearly 40lbs off of the total weight of the engine. Combine an aluminum block with lighter components and a good tune/turbo and we are talking about 2-300hp from a 130lb motor.

    Inline motors have better torque curves and can run into higher RPMs as a general rule.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2008
  25. Mitchj

    Mitchj OT Supporter

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    turbo motors will never have the response of a larger naturally aspirated engine and dare i say they don't last as long. LS1 v8's are getting ridiculous amount of miles on them now, i can't say the same for any smaller capacity turbo, alot of the ford boys are already blowing heads on their turbo 6's.
     

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