dump em vs relationships take work

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by antihero, Mar 4, 2008.

  1. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    Ok, we all know the vag is super dump happy. obviously we just hear so much mroe about the bad parts of a relationship then we hear about the good parts, but still it seems its very easy to take a look at small sliver of a relationship from the outside and conclude that its best to move on.

    Everyone who has ever been in a relationship knows that its not that easy though. Sometimes relationships take hard work and patience, even really good relationships. Where exactly is the line drawn?

    What, in your opinion, the most "hard work" you would put into an excellent relationship, and what would be just too much.

    Stupid fights: would once a month be too much? once a week? half the time? What would you put up with? what if you had a SO who got seasonal depression? What if you had to have an abortion. How long would you stick with it if it was hard times waiting to get back to good times before you decided it was ruined for good? If you let down your SO, how long would you let it be thrown in your face?

    depression, eating disorders, low self esteem, insecurity... There are tons of traits that could come up as problems over and over again, even though the rest of the relationship is great. Whats your limit?

    Nobody and no relationship is perfect. Im sure if someone did have a perfect relationship and gave it some time, someone would describe it as boring. :rofl: So how do you know when its worth the work and when its just too much?
     
  2. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    When you are married and/or have a couple of kids involved.
     
  3. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    Ive heard you say this before and I really disagree.

    you really think you can have a passionate involved relationship that leads to marraige without ever putting in any work?
     
  4. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    If a relationship becomes "work" BEFORE you are married, what it's going to be AFTER you are married when all your problems seem to magnify themselves by 100?
     
  5. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    a long term relationship without any "work" seems like a flying pig to me. Im not sure if its good or bad, but im fairly sure it simply does not exist.

    Whats the longest real (no long distance/internet stuff) relationship you have had that never involved work?
     
  6. Elphaba

    Elphaba New Member

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    I think we need to define our terms here. Viper seem to be defining "work" as something thats difficult, time consuming, annoying, etc. I think antihero maybe using "work" more generally, but I cant come up with good synonyms or replacement....effort? thought? I dunno.
    If the "work" in a relationship is something that actually is difficult and time consuming, then theres another problem other than the problem causing the work, right?
     
  7. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    I've never had one.

    Nor have I had a relationship that's actually been successful either.

    I have had 4 relationships, however, that DID involve a lot of WORK, that failed.

    :dunno:
     
  8. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    I define "work" as a problem that doesn't just naturally bounce out of a low back into a high point in the relationship with a little comprimise/communication.

    In other words "work" is a recurring problem that doesn't go away with typical relationship communication and comprimise.
     
  9. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    Im not sure how else to clarify, except to notice that viper describes it in the terms that the relationship "becomes work" which makes sense given his viewpoint, where im looking at it more as the relationship requires some work invested in it.

    Think about a car. a new honda civic requires work. you have to change the oil, add gas, minimal stuff, but work nontheless. A ferrari requires a lot more work but may also provide more rewards. a 15 year old volkswagon takes a lot of work and provides few rewards, so clearly the "work" is not worth it.

    I don't believe that a relationship can exist between two people for any length of time without some work.

    Could be as simple as this: my GF likes to sleep with the TV on, I can't do it. She turns it off for me. Thats work on her part.
     
  10. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    You're talking about maintenance.

    All relationships require maintenance...which is really just communication and comprimise.

    I'm talking about WORK.
     
  11. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    I don't really understand how you are defining the difference. care to give some examples?
     
  12. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    I'll use examples from my marriage, because, hey, I wouldn't be me if I didn't. lol

    Maintenance:

    My ex-wife used to HATE (read: FUCKING LOATHE) to hear people make noise when they ate. This was such a minor issue, that I would take care to try and chew as softly as I could because she'd flip out if she heard some cereal crunching in my mouth or something. I also took care to try and keep my mouth closed when I eat.

    Work:

    I got more enjoyment from masturbating and looking at porn than I did from having sex with my wife. Oh, sex was good, but it wasn't THAT good, because I felt like she didn't do much to please ME and that *I* was doing all the work and sex with us was more about pleasing HER. So I came up with every excuse in the book not to have sex with her. We'd go weeks at a time without having sex. This was the single greatest problem that caused our marriage to crumble. It was a compatibility/chemistry issue. She felt like I didn't want her because she gained weight, and not matter HOW much communication and comprimise I tried to show her that it wasn't THAT, it still did not make the problem go away. It was pure WORK, to the point that it sucked the life out of me completely.

    ***

    In the miantenance portion, me chewing with my mouth closed and eating a little slower alleviated a tiny problem in our marriage.

    In the work portion, nothing I did or she did made any difference because we weren't compatibile.
     
  13. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    hmm.. well thats your major problem: you gave up. You are definining the difference between work and not work based on your ability to find and implement a solution.

    I garantee you that in the history of time many men have delt with the exact same problem you did "I felt like she didn't do much to please ME and that *I* was doing all the work and sex with us was more about pleasing HER." and solved it BETTER then you solved the chewing issue.

    your definition is work=failure doesn't make any sense. I don't mean to point this out in a beligerent way. I hope you can read it and understand the insight it might give you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2008
  14. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    Just to clarify, I didn't give up.

    Even after I discovered she cheated on me, I wanted to work through our problems, see a marriage counsellor, etc. Because there were kids involved and we were married. But she left me. And she refused to go to counselling with me.

    Now, if the same issues happened in a relationship with no kids and no marriage, and you'd been with the girl, say, 3 years and you suddenly discovered that you weren't sexually compatibile with each other, are you seriously suggesting that the couple try and work through it?

    When you have a marriage/relationship fail as horribly as mine did, you learn pretty quickly that dating is a "weeding out" process. You FIND the right person. You dont work through "problems" and try to BE the right person. You use a course of SELECTING the person who meets the criteria that you can't change and who will comprimise on the stuff you CAN change.

    Else, you are just beating a dead horse.
     
  15. kiri

    kiri New Member

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    i read something in the newspaper (in one of those random advice columns, lol) that i really agreed with. it said that all relationships have little fights/problems/etc. if they never go anywhere, i.e. you go into different rooms until you cool off and then never discuss it, then they'll just build on themselves and make the relationship fall apart. but if you talk about them, understand each other, and make up (possibly even with sex), then they strengthen the relationship and make it better.

    so what i'm basically saying is that if the work you're putting into the relationship is productive, then it's worth it. if it's just tons of work and it's going nowhere, then you probably want to consider getting out.


    side note: my bf and i have little fights now and then, approximately once a month (on regular intervals, guess why? :hsugh:) but usually they end with us laughing about how whacko i get when i have PMS :o :mamoru:
     
  16. Elphaba

    Elphaba New Member

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    I think you're going in the right direction, but I think assuming that he thinks work= all failure/inability to find a solution equation is flawed..
    Seems to me that in his definition, work=difficult to communicate and find a solution, where maintenance=easy to communicate and easy solution...
     
  17. eskarinna

    eskarinna New Member

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    This is the second time i hear this from you and i have to disagree, not all marrieges work that way. Not always you get everything magnified by 100. There are cases when actualy the issues get better when married and i am sure there is planty of times that things stay the same. For example if a couple has been living together fo n number of years, they know everything there is to know about each other, been through good and bad and have always been able to cope with all their issues there is no reason why marriege would change anything.

    Its all about in your communication, maturity, love and common goals for the future.
     
  18. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    No, that's not even CLOSE to what I am saying.

    Maintenance is the ability to put effort into a relationship and receive the same effort back and you solve problems.

    Work is an unsolvable, compatibility issue. Maybe "unsolvable" isn't the right word, because if you are going to put WORK into a relationship, it should be if you are married/have kids together. You do what it takes to make those compatibility issues come together.

    Why anyone would want to WORK (according to my definition) in a relationship that has no ties binding you together is beyond me.
     
  19. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    If you have a problem going into a marriage, the marriage itself isn't going to solve it and the problem WILL get worse.

    Getting married doesn't create problems. It's a shock value adjustment though. Going from dating ---> marriage pretty much magnifies any unsolved problems significantly because there isn't any "walking away". you live together. Maybe I should say that living together magnifies your problems. I'm just basing marriage on a traditional sense that you aren't living together before you get married.
     
  20. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    But here is the thing, if the first thing you try works, you will percieve it as easy, but if its the 101st thing you try, you will percieve it as very difficult. The difficulty of the solution does not always have a direct correlation with the ammount of work necesary to solve a problem.
     
  21. Elphaba

    Elphaba New Member

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    Ok, so I think I have a situation that might shed some light on the two schools of thought we have going on this.

    [Backgound: I was in an LDR, living with some roommates while in school. Roommate and his girlfriend argue alot, but I'd say that its healthy arguing. My bf and I, on the other hand, dont argue that much.]

    I was riding in the car with Roommate one day and I said something about how I was trying to keep from even having my foot hover/be close to/anywhere near the clutch pedal. Roommate asked why.
    Me: "Because bf thinks its bad for the car"
    Roommate: "Well I dont think it is, I'd look into that, I dont really think it can hurt it that much if you're not riding it hard"
    Me: "I aggree with you, but I dont know much about cars and it makes bf happy"
    Roommate: "Well why do it if it doesnt do anything for the car? He could be wrong?!?!?"
    Me: "Sure, he could be, but again, it makes him happy and he's the one that takes care of the car anyway"
    Roommate: "I dont see why you do it if he could be wrong"
    Me: "This is why you and your gf argue so much, neither one of you can let anything go"

    Very similar to Vipers "cereal" scenario. I think about it this way: Roommate just didnt understand how I could do something like this simply for the reason that it made my bf happy. For my Roommate, simply conceeding to doing something without 'proof' would = a lot of WORK because something in his personality just couldnt handle that. For me, it was MAINTENANCE and I dont give 2 shits about conceeding small things just to make a relationship work.

    Not that Viper was saying that the ceral scenario was work, but I think what = work in a relationship can be very different depending on the couple/person
     
  22. Elphaba

    Elphaba New Member

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    Thanks for the clarification. This is why I started trying to get everyone to define what they meant by work, because talking at cross purposes never gets anyone anywhere.

    I aggree that having something that goes under your definition of "work" in a relationship probably means its doomed. I dont think this is how antihero was defining work in his original post though...
     
  23. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    I siad the cereal scenario was maintenance.

    You're illustrating my points with another example.

    You putting your foot on the clutch pedal has nothing to do with compatibility. So a fight/comprimise on this issue has absolutely nothing to do with the strength of your relationship.

    This is the point I am trying to make here in this thread.

    I define "work" as issues that are compatbility issues. Relationships should NOT require a lot of work.

    But all relationships require maintenance--communication and comprimise.
     
  24. Elphaba

    Elphaba New Member

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    Agreed, again, this is why I was trying to get you and Viper to define what you meant by work.

    I dont think that work=hard/difficult to find solution and maintenance=easy/easy to implement, I was trying to understand what Viper was saying and (as my previous post illustrates) was wrong.
     
  25. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    Heh, and this is also the reason I tend to be "dump happy" in the advice I give here in the Vag.

    Almost 90% of the threads here are problems arising from compatibility issues.
     

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