Driving Manual Transmissions

Discussion in 'OT Driven' started by OhNoess, Aug 23, 2005.

  1. OhNoess

    OhNoess New Member

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    Wish I had a search feature to see if something like this was already posted :-/.

    But yeah. Thought I'd get a post started just about driving sticks for those, like me, who dont know a lot about it and would like to know more. I've been driving manual for about 4 or 5 months and I've gotten much better at it since I started. Before I bought the car I'm driving now (a '95 Talon TSi AWD Turbo), I'd never touched a manual except my friends car and only for a few minutes.

    It took me so long to learn because everyone wanted to try and tell me what to do, rather than what I needed to get done. I'm the kind of person that will figure stuff out like that faster and better if I know how it works and what to do to make it work. Needlesstosay, I figured it out but I still have room for improvement.

    I was just wondering if anyone would like to share techniques, experiences, or other information that might be helpful to me and others to become more efficient (and possibly faster :rolleyes:) manual drivers.

    To start with, I'd like to ask from a stop, is it better to let the friction plates slide together, getting the transmission spinning as fast as the engine, before the clutch is fully let off, giving a smoother acceleration? I've been used to just getting off the clutch as soon as I can to reduce slipping of the plates and the wear of the clutch, which might sometimes give a slight jerk. I'm just paranoid about burning a clutch out and having to replace it.
     
  2. OhNoess

    OhNoess New Member

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    Haha, something else I thought about. Slightly off topic.. but hey. It's about engine knock though. As my car is a turbo, I've been reading up about it and such, putting only premium in the car because of the octane rating, to prevent this, this being the fuel exploding prematurely. But even with premium, putting on too much gas causes the car to do a series of sort of semi-violent 'hic-ups', barely accelerating, and if this is engine knock, destroying the engine as well. Is there something I don't know about or is that just the way it is with turbos and I have to deal with it?
     
  3. Gimik

    Gimik New Member

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    I'm trying to figure out that heel-toe stuff everyone talks about. I read about it and it makes zero sense...
     
  4. nmt6789

    nmt6789 Guest

    Heel-toe is useless unless your racing on a road course.....
     
  5. OhNoess

    OhNoess New Member

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    Yeah, I heard about that too. It does seem useless like nmt said. Another technique is double-clutching. I'm wondering if its something I should learn to do or does it not make much of a difference?
     
  6. Eng

    Eng New Member

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    double clutching will just create a smoother shift, its up to you if its worth the extra effort. Don't worry about burning up the clutch when driving. Go ahead and slip the clutch for a smooth takeoff rather than just dumping it and jerking the hell out of your car. As far as the "hicups" is that more of the sound the engine makes or can you actually feel the car hesitate then lunge forward?
     
  7. NetChemica

    NetChemica OT Supporter

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    Well, double clutching is more based on saving your synchros when downshifting than anything. What it is is when you shift from second you:

    disengage the clutch
    shift from second to neutral
    engage the clutch
    rev match to where the car should be in first gear
    disengage the clutch
    shift to first
    engage the clutch

    What happens then is you spin the countershaft up the speed of the engine to match it up with first gear, and you also get the revs up so that it doesn't burn your clutch as much.
     
  8. NetChemica

    NetChemica OT Supporter

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    Heel-toe manuvers are used to rev-match the RPMs to the gear you're going into while downshifting. This stops your clutch from wearing down and it also helps you control the braking more by reducing engine-braking/engine-acceleration caused by mismatched RPMs.
     
  9. nmt6789

    nmt6789 Guest

    You have to be pretty coordinated to heel-toe or double clutch....
     
  10. ProgWRX

    ProgWRX Citizen Dildo

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    it just takes lots of practice (not on the street please. :ugh: )
     
  11. BradUF

    BradUF Guest

    I want to trade my eclipse in for an RSX Type S but I cant drive stick and I am affaird I will dump all this money into a car and hate stick.
     
  12. ProgWRX

    ProgWRX Citizen Dildo

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    dont you have friends who'd let you test drive their cars?

    maybe rent a manual beater and get to know it?
     
  13. georgexi

    georgexi o.O OT Supporter

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    I'm kinda in the same boat. Been driving manual for almost 2 months now so tips are appreciated.

    Quick question. Say I'm coming to a red light or stopsign. Is it bad to stick the car in neutral and then slow down with the brakes as opposed to downshifting/holding in clutch/etc? I figure I'm putting the car in neutral anyway when I come to a stop. I also save on clutch wear and rpms drop to an idle therefore slightly reducing gas used.
     
  14. OhNoess

    OhNoess New Member

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    ok

    For georgexi: well I always disengage the clutch and put it into neutral if I know a stop is coming up so I can just drift up and brake like normal without havin to worry about the clutch or what gear I'm in.

    For manoso: As for the hicups thing, yes, it's a physical kind of shaking of the whole car. Its not like a single hesitation, then a lunge of power, it's more like a series of small, well, knocks inside the engine accompanied by a lackluster acceleration. Just as what I read up on engine knocking said, it's like the engine is working against itself because the fuel in the cylinders is exploding when it shouldn't. As for the sound, it just sounds painful to the engine. Don't get me wrong, I can accelerate pretty good without getting the engine to do this, I just can't FLOOR it because of the extra air thats being slammed into the cylinders.

    Also depending on where i get my premium from, this can happen at more gentle accelerations. Like one time I got some really suck ass gas and it would happen more often. If I get some high quality stuff in there, I do better.
     
  15. Tally TransAm

    Tally TransAm New Member

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    what you are experiencing is not knock (detonation). detonation you cant really feel but it sounds like marbles shaking around in a can at high rpms.

    as for using the clutch/motor to slow the car down, i rarely do it. brakes are easier and cheaper to replace , also having the engine at higher revs with the throttle blade closes creates a ton of vacuum in the motor that can consume oil and fuck with the piston rings over time
     
  16. ProgWRX

    ProgWRX Citizen Dildo

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    Dont use the engine to slow the car down, thats what the brakes are for. That being said, DONT put it into neutral. You should NEVER be coasting in neutral on any kind of open road. While you use your brakes to slow down, you should always progressively downshift as speed goes down so you are always in a good gear if you have to make some type of emergency maneuver.
     
  17. georgexi

    georgexi o.O OT Supporter

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    But otherwise coasting in neutral while slowing down isnt detrimental to the engine/transmission?
     
  18. ProgWRX

    ProgWRX Citizen Dildo

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    no its not... neither is coasting in gear, as long as youre not using the engine to slow down... except coasting in neutral is dangerous (and illegal in some places)
     
  19. CARETAKER

    CARETAKER KANEDAAAA!!! OT Supporter

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    I've been slowly learning to heel/toe, and I think I've finally got it with my car.. It's just a matter of getting the clutch, brake, and accelerator all working in tandem to slow the car down while matching revs and downshifting. It's not solely something that is dedicated to the track and auto-x. It does make daily driving smoother if you do it correctly.. No quick jerks or mismatched revs. I think only experienced drivers as a passenger in a car would be able to notice that you're doing heel/toe though.. Most passengers could care less I'm sure.
     
  20. ProgWRX

    ProgWRX Citizen Dildo

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    proper heel and toe should feel...invisible. It should feel as if youre only using the brakes which is essentially what you are doing, since you are only using heel and toe to downshift and match those revs while braking (with the brake pedal).
     
  21. WyldKat

    WyldKat Come with me if you want to live.

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    I miss having a manual car. :hs:

    Soooo fun.
     
  22. OhNoess

    OhNoess New Member

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    Ok. Downshifting to a stop, seems like learning heel-toe there would be good. I'll work on that.

    If what I'm experienced isn't knocking, what is it..? Is something wrong with the engine that's causing it..?


    On another note, I just spend 2 hours today trying to fix the backlight on my boost gauge. I've narrowed it down to the little 2'' gauge supply thats hooking up the power to the gauge. Short of spending $60 on another gauge, what could I do to remedy this little problem? I do have an amount of experience with electronics, just not car electronics. Does anyone know what this gauge supply does and if I can simply splice the wires of the working supply and power both gauges with one supply or would that be a bad bad idea? If so, would there be another alternative? The gauge works and everything, just doesnt backlight when I turn my lights on. Not a big enough problem to buy an entire new gauge just for the supply.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2005
  23. Ivy Mike

    Ivy Mike New Member

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    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=heel+toe

    Heel toe is probably better called heel and edge-of-foot in most cars. Basically, you brake with your heel while using the outside edge of your right foot to bring the revs up to match the gear you are going into.

    It should go like this when coming up to a turn in third gear.

    1. begin braking with heel
    2. push clutch in (you should be entering your turn here)
    3. start gently rolling on the gas with edge of foot
    4. pull shifter from 3rd to 2nd. (halfway through turn)
    5. by now, your revs should match what they would be in 2nd gear
    6. begin releasing brake.
    7. release clutch in one fluid motion(turn should be complete)
    8. brake should be about released by now, if not, drop it all the way.
    9. accelerate.

    now, this doesn't list the steps for double clutching, but I'll add them now. This kinda eliminates step 5 as well.
    in step 4, instead of just pulling quick into 2nd, disengage clutch (pedal in) pull tranny into N. Engage clutch. Begin blipping or rolling on throttle to bring revs up. Disengage clutch, pull tranny into 2nd (your revs are still up there right?) and engage clutch.
    continue to step 6.

    You'll have ot learn what works best in your car, but this is very doable and I do it on a daily basis. Keeps the questionable 2nd gear synchro in my Dub happy and makes turns buttery smooth AND allows higher corner speed.
     
  24. Mopar03

    Mopar03 73-9 OT Supporter

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    double clutching is useless in most new cars. modern day syncros eliminate any need for it.

    now rev matching while downshifting is ok if you don't want to upset the balance of the suspension or want to impress your passengers :cool:
     
  25. georgexi

    georgexi o.O OT Supporter

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    How long did it take you guys to finally drive "jerk-free"? I havent stalled the car in a long time but I'm still slightly jerky on some shifts... especially if I try to accelerate quickly or shifting while going uphill.
     

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