GUN Do you carry with one in the chamber and your gun ready to fire?

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Coottie, Oct 7, 2007.

  1. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    I'm curious, do most people carry with their gun ready to fire? Not including manual safeties, which I would assume that you have on, what I'm asking is do you have your gun virtually ready to fire where you just have to click off the safety and it's ready to rock and roll?

    I just got my first real gun, a S&W M&P 9mm and it doesn't have a manual safety, other than the trigger safety. However, I've been told that it was designed to be carried where it's ready to fire. That seems sort of dangerous to me when it only takes less than a second to load a round.

    So it would seem that it's much safer to carry without one in the chamber, at least for my gun. What do you guys think?
     
  2. lt1aggie

    lt1aggie what?

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    not if you have a holster that covers the trigger. most people will tell you that you might be in a situation where you don't have time to rack the slide. i think almost everyone carries with +1, and a lot of guns (like glocks) don't have a manual safety switch.
     
  3. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    I'm usually either carrying G29 or P99 with one in the tube. As long as you got a decent holster theirs no problem with doing it that way.
     
  4. thedude11

    thedude11 New Member

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    I carry cocked and locked... I figure if I need it, I don't want to worry about having to chamber a round.

    You never know the situation you may be facing... you may not have an extra hand to rack the slide, may not have the time, etc...
     
  5. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    I don't get what you are saying.

    Are you saying if you have a holster that covers the trigger you won't carry one in the chamber?? That seems backwards to me. It seems like you would be more likely to carry one in the chamber if your holster DOES cover the trigger.....simply to prevent an AD.

    What am I missing here?
     
  6. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    I hear a lot of people saying there's no problem doing it this way but I don't seem much justification for this belief. To me there seems to be potential problems with it. What about ADs caused because of mechanical issues inside the gun?? What about hanging the trigger on loose clothing or the edge of the holster?? What about an AD being cause because of excessive bumping, such as if you trip and fall??

    I can't think of every situation where something could happen but it seems more dangerous to carry with one in the chamber than not.
     
  7. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    That's true that timing might be an issue but let's think about how many armed confrontations happen in a persons life?? Even cops can go their entire careers without ever having to fire a shot so these confrontations are very rare. The number of times that armed confrontations result in the attacked NOT having time to load a round would seem to make this likelihood even smaller.

    Is my thinking wrong here??
     
  8. thedude11

    thedude11 New Member

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    Guns don't "go off". They need to have the trigger pulled to fire... most every gun has a firing pin safety or block of some kind.

    As far as holstering it and getting it caught, that could happen. That's why I use the safety and I don't try to set a world's record for holstering a gun. Unholstering is when you need to be quick... I don't see the need for quickly and unsafely holstering your gun.
     
  9. JaimeZX

    JaimeZX Formerly of :Sep 2001: fame - Also: Sprout Crew OT Supporter

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    There is danger inherent in carrying a weapon.

    Most people will carry condition 1: round in chamber, manual safety on. Otherwise known as "cocked and locked." Flip off safety and squeeze to fire.

    You're saying you prefer condition 3. Which is okay if it makes you feel more comfortable; but in a one-handed defensive situation it could cost you. That's a choice only YOU can make.

    You are correct in saying that on weapons without a thumb-or-other-manual safety you're just "cocked" instead of "cocked and locked." The other fellows were making the point that if you have a properly designed holster that you are wearing properly, then the trigger will be covered and it is unlikely to snag on something. But yah. Glock leg and all that.
     
  10. thedude11

    thedude11 New Member

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    Partly true... but then again it's not about the statistics, it's about the stakes.

    I'd rather be able get off a round as quickly as possible.

    When my gun is holstered, I can't touch the trigger so I don't have to worry about any discharges. Whenever I'm handling my gun, my finger is off the trigger, so again, don't have to worry about the gun discharging.
     
  11. thedude11

    thedude11 New Member

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    But ya... like Jamie said, carry the way in which you are most comfortable.
     
  12. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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    If you're not comfortable with it, don't do it :dunno:

    The gun isn't going to go off by itself or if it gets bumped. As for getting the trigger caught when you're re-holstering, you should be paying attention to what you're doing. You're gun shouldn't be out of the holster in a public place so you should be able to take your time holstering it at home or at the range or wherever.
     
  13. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    I would agree that a properly functioning gun should NOT just go off without a precipitating event like pulling the trigger. However, mechanical failures happen all the time with complex mechanical instruments. A gun is no different in this regard and although I don't have any stats, it seems like we've been extra lucky with firearms not malfunctioning more.
    Right but with my weapon, I don't have a manual safety. It's the M&P 9mm and from what I've read, it's designed to be carried with one in the chamber. I'm not going for speed records on holstering at all, I'm concerned about normal, day to day, concealed carrying.
    Well if it comes un-holstered it's either because of a threat or a fight of some sort where it gets knocked out.
     
  14. lt1aggie

    lt1aggie what?

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    My comment was directed towards " So it would seem that it's much safer to carry without one in the chamber, at least for my gun." I was saying that if you have a holster that covers the trigger, it IS safe to carry with one in the chamber because guns dont just fire at random times unless the trigger is pulled.
     
  15. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Yep it's a choice I'm debating and it's the reason for this thread. I'm trying to get more opinions cuz I'm really new to guns.
    Glock leg?? I assume that's referring to someone shooting themselves in the leg with a Glock?? Hmm....if there's a name for it, perhaps it's happened more than I initially thought.
     
  16. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Yeah I'm trying to get comfortable with the idea of carrying with one in the chamber but without a manual safety, it certainly seem dangerous to me.

    When I hear people say, "It's safe and many people do it." I think of all the Mac fans that claim that Macs "just work" when a little research will show that that isn't necessarily true. In fact, there are many people that have a lot of problems with macs.

    So I'm trying to dig deeper to satisfy myself that gun like the M&P are safe to carry with one in the chamber.
     
  17. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Ahh ok.
     
  18. [DWI]

    [DWI] Master of Nothing

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    I use a SA/DA revolver. S&M model 60. No manual safety except for the heavy trigger pull.

    I keep a round under the hammer, but even if I didn't the next chamber is placed up the hammer when it is drawn back, so I guess wheel guns are not included in this discussion.

    As for carrying a gun loaded with one in the chamber with nothing besides a trigger safety. I am not too familiar with the design of your gun, but most modern firearms, including s&w will not fire unless the trigger is pulled, so jolts, drops and the like won't cause a discharge as long as the gun is properly maintained. The glock has a trigger safety and I know many people to carry then locked and loaded. The truth is with a well made and well maintained firearm the only way that carrying it with one in the chamber would be dangerous is if something got within the trigger frame without your knowing, but a decent holster will not allow access to the trigger without the weapon being unholstered. So with a good holster and a good gun the only issue you would have is keeping your finger out of the trigger frame, which is just a matter of proper form.
     
  19. Ebtromba

    Ebtromba Active Member

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    whenever I get my ccw and I start carrying, I have already made the decision that I won't carry in condition 1. condition 3 is fine for me. I have a XD 9mm 3'', so there are no manual safeties.

    I think I would just be too paranoid (of myself) carrying a "hot" weapon everyday...not that if I did I would inevitably expect an AD. I feel plenty armed at condition 3.

    plus I'd hate to have some accident, TL1000RSquid finds the news report about it, and then I make you all look bad...:ugh:...:rofl:
     
  20. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    Most mechanical AD failures dont happen when the gun is just sitting there, they happen when theres a mechanical failure while chambering a round, disengaging the saftey etc, I dont think I've heard of a failure with a gun just sitting there and going off with out something else causing it.
     
  21. lt1aggie

    lt1aggie what?

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    One thing i like about my walther is that it DOESN'T have a manual trigger safety. My thought on this is that that's one less thing i have to worry about if i get myself in a bind and actually need to use the gun. Yes, you should practice with your gun all the time and be able to operate it in your sleep, but things change when your adrenaline starts going, or you are woken up in the middle of the night, etc. A manual trigger safety is one less thing i have to worry about so see if it's off or on. I rely on the double action first pull of the walther as my 'safety'.
     
  22. [DWI]

    [DWI] Master of Nothing

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    the question would be if a good jolt could be enough to cause it? Something like jogging across a busy road, bumping into a door frame, an auto wreck where the seatbelt suddenly presses on the gun, or even just tripping and falling. While none of those motions are intended to cause movement of internal parts if there is a mechanical problem in may provide enough energy.

    Then again proper cleaning and maintenance should prevent 99% of mechanical problems and in doing so you should detect most of the others.
     
  23. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    a Jolt shouldnt do anything to it, 1911's and some other guns with external hammers it can happen with though. I highsided my gixxer with my glock on my hip didnt go off.
     
  24. Ebtromba

    Ebtromba Active Member

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    so to the OP, it sounds like you are not comfortable carrying your weapon in condition 1, round in the chamber, ready to rock and roll. and most people on this forum will and have said that is totally cool. I feel the same way. I'm not really a gun noob, but i'm very much an autoloading pistol noob and very much a ccw noob like you.
     
  25. JaimeZX

    JaimeZX Formerly of :Sep 2001: fame - Also: Sprout Crew OT Supporter

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    Mechanical failures aren't really an issue with a weapon FIRING. Generally they are (literally) fail-safe. For example: in a series-80-style 1911 there are three safeties. Thumb, grip, and firing pin. The thumb safety blocks the hammer from dropping. The grip safety prevents the trigger from being squeezed. The firing pin safety blocks the firing pin from moving. If one of those fails the others will still prevent the weapon from firing. Example:
    Grip safety fails (little transfer arm breaks off, whatever) - trigger can be squeezed. But with thumb safety on the hammer will not fall.
    Thumb safety fails (pin breaks off or something) - Probably the pin would jam the mechanism; but if somehow it fell out of the way, then the hammer could drop somehow but the firing pin block would keep the pin from moving and still you'd need the trigger squeeze to move the sear so that the hammer could fall anyway.
    Firing pin block fails (spring compression changes, whatever) - It will probably fail in such a way as to block the pin even when the other two safeties are disengaged, and even if it DIDN'T block the pin, teh hammer would have to STRIKE the firing pin to cause the weapon to fire. The pin isn't suddenly going to overcome significant spring pressure on its own and impact a primer.

    Overall I think you'll find guns are fairly robust in the (relative) safety of their design.

    Look it up. Basically in high-stress situations people can shoot themselves in the leg because their finger goes on the trigger and squeezes before the weapon is fully unholstered because the brain is screaming "SHOOT!!!! SHOOT!!!!" and the body reacts too quickly. Or rather, not all parts of the body react in the correct order.
    Draw - Aim - Shoot
    becomes
    Draw/Shoot - Aim... oops.
     

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