SRS Depression

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Wonder Showzen, Nov 18, 2008.

  1. Wonder Showzen

    Wonder Showzen Domeshotter

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    been clinically diagnosed with depression and have been learning how to deal with it for the last year or so (been apparent that i had it for the last few years, though). Just wondering what others do to get out of their slumps, seems that i'm stuck in one now that the weather is changing and i'm back in school, etc, etc.

    at a shitty point in life (19 yrs old) where i have no real motivation for progressing towards anything of real substance and no real passion for anything in life. was feeling great for few months, but now i'm just bored with life and unhappy. also, prescriptions are not wanted.

    mainly the bold is what i'm interested in.
     
  2. tacompton

    tacompton Guest

    I strongly advise all "depressed" people to avoid psychiatric treatment if possible. For most people, "depression" is not a material disease; rather, it is simply the natural emotional consequence of bad life circumstances. It would really be more accurate to call it "dissatisfaction" than "depression." The psychiatric establishment medicalizes totally normal thoughts to promote the use of drugs and mental health services. Of course, there is a legitimate utility for psychiatric treatment in extreme cases. But for most people, just about the most dangerous thing you can do is to go through life with an artificially inflated mood produced by psychiatric drugs. I'm not a Scientologist, just somoeone who is speaking from experience. Having gotten mixed up with psychiatry as a teenager is possibliy the biggest regret of my life. Stay away from mental health if you can avoid it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2008
  3. tacompton

    tacompton Guest

    No. Psychiatrists have exactly one tool a their disposal, and that's drugs.

    And when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
     
  4. Scootin

    Scootin OT Supporter

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    That's the key part of your statement, which you then go on to basically ignore, attempting to slam psychiatry into the ground. The guy says he's dx'd with depression - that's not just his "feeling," it is a certifiable DSM-IV disorder.


    Feeling sad or being unsatisfied with your life is not clinically diagnosed depression. The two are completely different and the DSM-IV takes that into account, explicitly differentiating between the two.

    Wrong, wrong, wrong. People like you are what perpetuate the stigma of depression and prevent people from getting the treatment they need.

    And that is exactly what thousands of people need. Admittedly, psychotropics are overprescribed and procedures such as CBT are underutilized. However, your admonition of psychiatric care in this case is entirely inappropriate.

    Psychotropics are extremely valuable to the treatment of psychological disorders. Combination therapy (drug and talk) has been shown to be far, far more effective than monotherapy. Ultimately, IPT is the best long-term therapy since it teaches appropriate coping mechanisms, but it can be ineffective in many cases.

    You also seem ignorant of the fact that depression is a medical problem, as are all psychiatric disorders. Again, you marginalize psychiatry as a pseudo-medical field which is ridiculous.

    I think he would be much better off listening to someone actually trained in psychological care than some random guy on an internet forum trying to debase an established field of medicine as not only useless, but harmful. Your post did nothing but hurt his future treatment.

    To the TS: Go back to your psychologist and talk about therapy options. As I said above, combination therapies often work the best - using a mild antidepressant like an SSRI and interpersonal therapy, probably in the form of CBT. What your psychologist/psychiatrist decides will be his professional opinion, but make sure to tell him if you feel uncomfortable with side effects of a medication or the therapy you're receiving.

    Oh and good luck. :wavey:
     
  5. tacompton

    tacompton Guest

    :bowrofl: @ the DSM-IV. Anyone who gives that insipid volume even the slightest grain of credibility is ignorant to a degree that borders on functional illiteracy. The "criteria" for a diagnosis of mental illness are subjective and inclusive by design, so literally anyone who walks into a psychiatric clinic can get labelled with a mental disorder and put on medication regardless of the source of his distress. Contrary to your inane textbook assertions, the value of psychotrophs for treating depression is highly questionable, the drugs are far from harmless, and most of the mainstream research pertaining to them is unreliable due to the rampant conflicts of interest that exist within the FDA and in academia. Furthermore, many psychiatrists recieve substantial kickbacks, figures to the tune of tens of thousands of dollar a year, and simply cannot be trusted to make objective diagnostic and treatment decisions. Your view of psychiatry is utterly uncritical and unsophisticated; your argument basically amounts to "I learned it in school, so it must be correct." :ugh2: Well, in fact, a large portion of what goes on in psychiatry is based upon sheer pseudoscience, outright fraud, and the field thoroughly deserves its current reputation as the lowest thing that has ever passed for a medical speciality. The best thing that anyone can do is stigmatize the fuck out of psychiatry so that hopefully fewer people will get mixed up with this bullshit medicine. If a few psychiatrists miss out on kickbacks, I can live with that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2008
  6. minhtos

    minhtos OT Supporter

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    Don't alot of people go through depression around that time of their lives? I'm pretty sure i was going through something similar (but due to family problems at home, bad grades, etc). I'm not opposed to drugs but that would be the last thing for me.

    First thing i would do is have a strong support network. Having good friends will just make your days better. Next would to set goals, long term and short term (daily goals). Daily goals will make your day seem more productive.

    Some daily goals: going to the gym, play an instrument for x minutes a day. I think that any type of activity that stops the voice in the head will help you feel better. Plus you'll end up tired and pass out when you go to bed (depression caused me insomnia; i don't know if its the same in your case).

    Also, check your diet. You need a balanced diet alongside with a daily exercise routine to help keep your body hormones and neurotransmitters in balance.

    Last is go have fun. Make a friend take you out. Anything.. staying alone sucks despite it being what you want.

    although i said i wouldn't take drugs. do it if you have to and just remember that it's a tool to help you and not replace the changes that you have to make.
     
  7. Scootin

    Scootin OT Supporter

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    Let me just start by saying you are obviously extremely ignorant of the underlying processes of psychopathology. It will therefore be incredibly difficult to formulate an argument that such an unlearned (although very opinionated) person can comprehend.

    The DSM is not arbitrary, vague, or subjective. In fact, it is extremely exclusive, delineating exact boundaries between true disorders and distress as a result of something else, or subsyndromal distress. If you contest this I would suggest you read a copy sometime.

    The DSM was specifically designed to prevent subjective and arbitrary diagnosis of psychopathology. It is well validated by people with actual evidence, unlike your ignorant conspiracy theories.


    I never said the drugs were safe, ever. They can have very serious side effects, which is why they are administered by professionals. Their efficacy is far from questionable - They have been shown over and over and over again to work in a significant portion of the population. The data is not anymore unreliable than the data your cardiologist reads, but you trust him, don't you? Like I said, it's very difficult to argue with someone like you, so I hope you're following along ok. Since I actually have an idea of how these drugs work, I would love for you to continue arguing this point so I can tear it apart. :wavey:

    Also, if you could provide evidence for all your statements, that would be great. I'd love to see this abundance of literature slamming psychotropic drugs.

    This is just plain wrong. It's not only incorrect, it's illegal. Psychiatrists do not get more money for prescribing certain drugs. They may be paid to give talks on behalf of a company, which happens in every field - your cardiologist probably receives thousands of dollars a year to speak on behalf of a company at a convention, but never, ever to prescribe increasing rates of drugs. If you have a problem with the interaction between medical professionals and pharmaceutical companies, I suggest you stop going to medical professionals at all and contact a shaman - they probably are the only ones not being paid.

    I learned it from people who have clinical and experimental experience, not some armchair psychologist spouting unfounded conspiracy theories. I've done research myself that have proven the same things. I don't think you realize just how far down the rabbit hole you're attempting to go here - your seemingly simple denouncement of psychiatry is essentially an attempt to debase all of modern medicine.


    Please explain yourself. Pseudoscience? How so? Because a part of what we study is intangible?

    Fraud? I'd love to hear this.

    Lowest thing ever passed for a medical specialty? It's really funny that people in the medical field don't agree with you. Sounds like, again, you are just another armchair keyboard commando conspiracy theorist that needs to be medicated himself.

    You argue like this is a matter of opinion - when it is the farthest thing from it. This is fact. You are not some freedom fighter struggling to rid the world of evil psychiatrists, you are not helping anyone, and you are doing nothing but making yourself appear more and more stupid.
     
  8. t8thgr8

    t8thgr8 evry day im hustlin'

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    sorry doctor integra, but i dont agree with you either. depression is triggered by outer sources not something within. its a viscous cycle that snowballs over time if you dont remedy it. the longer you wait the deeper the hole gets and the harder it is to climb out. for a lot of people depression simply comes from being alone. then there are those who are depressed because there is something they dont like about themselves. the viscous part is where if youre single and you go out to find someone the look on your face and sound of your voice shoots up red flags because depression is the most unnactractive trait someone can have. or the viscous part can be how the fat person cant build up enough energy to get moving, making them fatter and even more unlikey to get moving.

    you can take all the medication you want but if you dont fix the problem youll always be nothing without it. also, the foods most people take in dont have a lot of useful nutrients and its getting worse and worse. drink more water and breathe deeper. think about what is truly bothering you and ask yourself why it does and if theres anything you can do about it. if there is, do it. if not, get over it. the further we move away from whats natural the worse we are going to feel, period.
     
  9. Scootin

    Scootin OT Supporter

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    And again, it's this kind of errant dichotomous thought that makes it so difficult to explain the processes of psychiatry. Psychopathology is not caused by nature or nurture alone - the two processes are inextricably tied together. Look up the diathesis-stress model of psychopathology and learn yourself something. You wouldn't tell the schizophrenic to just "knock it off," would you? There's this horribly misinformed idea out there that depression is simply a "psychological" process and that there's no underlying biological process to it. Obviously, this is wrong. Every depression has a biological process to it - just like every single "action" in the brain.

    Absolutely, I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that. The issue we have here is what that remedy consists of. For some people, that remedy consists of simply CBT. For others, antipsychotics may be necessary. We aren't yet to the point of curing most psychopathology - another point I readily concede - but the focus on medication is to use what has been observed as an effective mood elevator to address the symptomatology of depression. This goes right back to the snowball effect you mentioned: If you're depressed because you're getting poor grades, your depression will only net you poorer grades. How do we break that cycle? Providing that "artificial" elevated mood to give the person a chance to break the cycle. For many people, the only mood elevation we can provide is through a drug. In most cases, these drugs are not meant for life. They are meant to provide short-term relief to give us a window to better fix the patient.



    Absolutely. However, as I said above, drugs may be a necessary tool towards the ultimate goal of providing a better life for the patient. They are not the only tool, but they are an essential tool for many, many people.

    There is emerging evidence regarding the importance of nutrition in psychopathology, but again it only goes so far. Eating three squares a day may lessen the impact of depression, but it won't cure it.

    It's essential to realize that drugs are not these agents of evil that ruin your life. When properly administered, like any drug, they aid the clinician in fixing a problem. For some people, that problem is not "fixable" in which case the drug would have to be used long-term. There's just no way around this at this juncture. As medicine advances, we will find ways to fix psychopathological disorders. Right now, we must work with the tools we have and provide the best quality care for the patient.
     
  10. t8thgr8

    t8thgr8 evry day im hustlin'

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    the medical field might have figured out what gland in the brain secretes what chemical and they may have figured out what each chemical does when it hits whatever receptor but they arent looking at things in a large enough perspective. As I stated earlier if you dont reach the underlying cause then the pills are a mask, or a bottle cap if you ask me. as soon as the body stops taking the chemical that excites the designated gland or receptor the brain goes back into default mode. default mode is the brains way of getting the body to do something it doesnt want to do for whatever reason. if the body continues this stubborness then you are impeding your fate. if you dont do it the depression will take you out of circulation and the world will carry on without you. mankind has moved so far from nature that we arent getting what we require to live a normal life, we werent meant to eat pills. and of course there are the special cases obviously, head trauma and what not.

    everyone views the same reality in their own way. who is to say that depression is an illness? why not a necessary evil? i seriously doubt our bodies are designed to be miserable yet so many are classified as depressed. i think the further we move away from nature into technology and processed foods, extracts and drugs the more we sacrifice our core needs, and the longer it goes on the more that will be diagnosed with depression.
     
  11. Scootin

    Scootin OT Supporter

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    You're just not getting this, are you? :rofl:

    Overlooking your blatant misunderstandings regarding neuropharmacology, it's still apparent that you're so stuck on the belief that psychiatrists use psychotropic drugs to cure patients - and you would be wrong. I don't know how much simpler I can make it.

    And as I told the other poster, you seem like a great candidate to just stop receiving professional health care. Don't take any medications at all since they're not natural, and we'll see how your life turns out.

    I'm just amazed that you put so much value on your personal opinion and thought experiments when there is verified, peer-reviewed data out there that says otherwise.

    I do agree that we need a generally healthier lifestyle in the world, but rejection of modern medicine is not the way to go.
     
  12. Scootin

    Scootin OT Supporter

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    By the way, what do you propose is done when the "underlying cause" is in fact the dysfunction of a neurotransmitter system itself, not secondary to exogenous stressors?

    By your definition, these people are normal and no treatment is appropriate for them. They are doomed to live life depressed because you don't believe the drugs work.
     
  13. Wonder Showzen

    Wonder Showzen Domeshotter

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    Lol at how this turned into a debate.
     
  14. Wonder Showzen

    Wonder Showzen Domeshotter

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    this is understood, but i've tried them and they made me even more miserable (physically, zero appetite of appetite, sleep was just about impossible). i'm not looking for a cure or for this to be a debate on anything medical. just more curious to hear from people who have actually been seriously depressed and how they got away from that shit hole.

    and when i mean zero appetite and can't sleep, i'd literally not be able to eat. i had to flat out quit taking them to gain an appetite and maybe a few hours of sleep a night if i was lucky.
     
  15. Wonder Showzen

    Wonder Showzen Domeshotter

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    and i also didn't read 90% of that shit because that's not where i intended this thread to go at all.

    edit: my bad for triple post...
     
  16. Scootin

    Scootin OT Supporter

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    Were you on a stimulant or SSRI?

    Were you just not hungry or actually kind of nauseous?

    Sorry about the "debate," btw. There are tons of options for treating psychological problems and those are best discussed with your psychiatrist/psychologist. These people aren't going to shove drugs down your throat, they really do want to help.
     
  17. tacompton

    tacompton Guest

    Yeah, trust me, I prescribe drugs, I want to help. Sure. Just short of hiding out in a cave in the mountains, you would be well advised to do everything possible to avoid any contact with anyone who claims to be interested in your well-being.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2008
  18. Scootin

    Scootin OT Supporter

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    For some reason I totally buy that you're not trolling, but in fact believe what you're saying is 100% accurate, and I don't know why. Paranoid schizophrenic, maybe?

    I don't know why you have such a negative view of humankind. It's kind of sad, really. You must be one bitter, friendless guy. :hs:
     
  19. Ridonkulous1

    Ridonkulous1 New Member

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    wow. I don't know quite what to say to this. Is this only directed at those who prescribe drugs or at any person (family member, friend, spouse, therapist, etc.) in general who wants to lend an ear or a kind word or two?

    I have what some diagnose as bipolarity. I've chosen not to take mood stabilizing or altering drugs. However, I think that for some people they are appropriate or even necessary.

    To the original poster: Yeah, this sorta became a debate haha. I read all of it and I found it absolutely fascinating. When I'm in a downturn I tend to want to get into fights with people and everything irks me and I just want to be alone and wait it out. But, this usually prolongs it. Sometimes I get onto rapid cycling (which isn't as fun or exhilerating as it sounds) and it takes something really positive and great to bring it out of me. But, I find that if you just go talk to people and force yourself to be with people (hopefully your friends because if you force yourself to be with people you don't like then it's probalby only going to get worse) then all the things that irk you and all the things that annoy you will be overwhelmed in time by something that excites you or interests you or makes you happy. Sorta the idea that if you fire off enough bullets you'll hit something somewhere sometime. Stay in there, I know it's hard :/
     
  20. tacompton

    tacompton Guest

    Friendless, no. Bitter, yes. Bitter because I destroyed my life permantly as a result of obliterating my senses with psychiatric drugs. Totally worthless drugs which are based on an utterly phony body of research that was thoroughly bought and paid for. My view of humankind is based on reality, and the simple fact that most people are neither interested in nor even capable of helping anybody apart from themselves.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2008
  21. Scootin

    Scootin OT Supporter

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    Details are overwhelming. I'd be willing to bet it was more your fault than anybody else's. :rofl:

    And it's really appropriate of you to take a personal experience and generalize it to the entire population. Not only that but giving out medical advice based solely on your experience. Unbelievable.

    Why don't you keep your opinion to yourself and let the professionals do what they do best?
     
  22. Xin

    Xin OT Supporter

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    :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:
    :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:
    :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:
     
  23. Xin

    Xin OT Supporter

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    I see my nga scootinintegra laid it all down :bowdown:

    Christ, I just can't deal with people and their ignorance towards the psychology/psychiatric field. I was on NN for like a week and I already had a defending psychology stance in a thread spouting off the same crap as this one is.

    I know this is in the Asylum, but jesus this is to help people not sit here and spew lies about medical treatment due to bad personal experiences and self regrets
     
  24. Scootin

    Scootin OT Supporter

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    :h5:

    Guy hasn't shown back up to explain how his life was ruined so I'm going to assume he's either full of shit or too embarrassed to admit he was mainlining heroin while on an antipsychotic. :rofl:
     
  25. Scootin

    Scootin OT Supporter

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    I love how everyone that tries to argue with me about psychotherapeutic drugs always has to bring out the "BUT THEY DON'T CURE ANYTHING!!!" line. :rofl:

    That, right there, demonstrates perfectly the minimal extent of their knowledge of psychiatry.
     

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