MIL Denying an LOR?

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Frank23, Aug 29, 2006.

  1. Frank23

    Frank23 New Member

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    I've just recieved an LOR for something that I feel is complete bullshit. I've gone three years with absolutely no negative paper work or verbal warnings, and all of a sudden I get to Alaska and within a month, I get an LOR for disrespect towards an NCO.

    Now, just like all "slap on the wrists" we recieve, the incident that got me the paper work was compounded with other incidents.

    Without getting into to much of a story, this is what happened since I've been here.
    1. Chronic knee injury for 7 months, new doctor literally rolls her eyes at me and tells me to get out of the office. I tell her what I need, and if she is wasn't going to prescribe it to me, I had the right to see another doctor for a second opinion.

    =She calls my shirt and tells him I was very demanding and argumentative.

    2. Walk into shop chiefs office, say good afternoon, and sit down.

    =Senior NCO, says I disrespected him by not standing up, shaking his hand, and waiting to be seated.

    3.Walked into First Shirts office for a talk about moving off base, (after previously walking in and acknowledging him) walk back in when my shop cheifs are now sitting, sit down and put my hat on my knee.

    =Disrespected shirt by not showing common courtesy. Keep in mind this man was leaned back, and didn't make any gesture what so ever to shake my hand or anything.
    The first thing out of the shirt's mouth was, "I like how you waltzed in here, plopped down in your seat, crossed your legs, and dropped your hat on your knee. You're arrogant, and have a lack of military bearing."

    What can I do to fight this?
    Thanks.
     
  2. SupraTFassa

    SupraTFassa New Member

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    Sounds like sign it, and keep your mouth shut would be your best idea. :dunno:
     
  3. PlutoBHG

    PlutoBHG New Member

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    yea you better try your best to make them think otherwise of you fast because they sound like nazis...

    and you dont want to work for nazis that have you on their shit list for the next however long youre there
     
  4. Frank23

    Frank23 New Member

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    Kind of hard to do, I already work hard, I'm persuing my CCAF (and a BA), boots are always spit shined, uniform pressed, never late, PT scores are always excellent etc. etc.

    You know, it's not like I'm a fucking dirt bag or anything.

    But, from what I've seen in the shop, I'm not the only one that has gotten an LOR for this, the majority of the folks in the shop have gotten at least one.

    The supervision sort of hands them out like they're reinforcement tools.
    I'll be honest, it's gotten my attention, but I just don't like the fact that it's going to go on my record.
    They did this almost like they (shop supervision/first shirt) planned it out. They couldn't tag me on each incident alone, so they just cornered me in the shirts office, and got me for disrespecting him by not standing at attention, and waiting to be seated.
    It kind of makes you feel like going above and beyond isn't even worth it.
    Especially if you're only one month into a three year tour in Alaska!
     
  5. PlutoBHG

    PlutoBHG New Member

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    what im saying is maybe you should start doing all that standing at attention bs for a while and say you just had a bad week or something...and see what happens
     
  6. Isamu

    Isamu New Member

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    Ok, it's an LOR, it's not the end of the world. i mean, i know it sucks, and i freaked out when i got one.. but in 6 months if your supervisor is cool, he will walk over and visit your pif and remove it.. or, if your lucky, like i was... it stays in house.. and never enters your pif.
     
  7. Sharkticon

    Sharkticon The safest place in combat is on an AEGIS Class Gu

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    Holy moly. What service are you in? Army or AF?
     
  8. Isamu

    Isamu New Member

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    who me? I am AD AF
     
  9. evan2

    evan2 Guest

    lol you have a fucked up chain of command
     
  10. TRN

    TRN Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you are knee deep in bullshit over there.
     
  11. scottiemac

    scottiemac It's time to shoot some hot dogs!

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    what base did you come from? rank? job?
     
  12. dubrocker

    dubrocker sho nuff

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    next time, realize you aren't a doctor. call your last pcm, have them talk to your current doctor. problem solved.

    you've only been there a month and you are already acting like you are drinking buddies with the boss?

    who cares how the shirt is sitting? did you seriously expect ANYTHING else to happen after your boss (who you obviously have pissed off) just got done filling the shirt's ear full of how much of a piece of shit you are?

    shut the fuck up and sign it. realize you aren't at your last base and adapt to your new chain of command. you'll be lucky to stay in the air force with your current attitude. i'm not arguing for or against you, i'm just stating the facts.
    you're welcome. next time you pcs, understand that right off the bat no one will like you. keep that state of mind for about 6 months and be cautious of what you do or say; remember your military bearing.
     
  13. ManinCamo

    ManinCamo I wear big boy pants.

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    Just something I noticed... I walk into the Shirts office, who I technically outrank, and with whome I litereally talk to on a daily bases. here's how it goes.


    -I knock on the door, wait for him to invite me in - note I don't need to do this
    -We offer greetings toward each other, good afternoon, handshake, "whats up LT/Shirt"
    -If he doesn't offer me a seat, I ask if he minds. - I could sit if I wanted


    An LOR may be a bit extreme, it was done to get your attention and it worked. I agree with everyone else, including your shirt. Tighten up, keep your nose clean and go by the book until you learn what you can loosen up on. I'm not saying you're a dirtbag, just keep yourself sharp.
     
  14. brackac

    brackac Fuck all of this. OT Supporter

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    I need a 3 man detail to raise the bullshit flag please. There is obviously something missing from this story.
     
  15. Frank23

    Frank23 New Member

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    For some of the questions:

    You could have guessed it, I'm a SrA in the Air Force.

    Job= LANTIRN troop.

    Current base= Ak.

    Last base= Osan

    Well the LOR got signed, but I am going to submit a comment on it to hopefully get it dropped or down graded to an LOC or LOA with the help of ADC.
    I know it's not the end of the world, but I don't want any marks on my record what so ever. Just preference I guess.

    To dubrocker:

    My last duyt station was Korea, so there is a bit of an issue with the time.
    My doctor in Korea even went as far as to write down in the records what he wanted to be done at my next duty station. She refused it, and basically wanted to start from ground zero on my meds. eg. anti-inflamitory (which I had already taken) and physical therapy (also which has already done.)



    There are two flight chiefs (I said shop chief previously) one of them I shook hands with when I initally met him. The other was on leave. When I come back to the office about a week later he's there, and I forget to acknowledge him by shaking his hand, or standing and waiting to be told to take a seat.
    I did act a little too informal at the time, but I wasn't warned about this or anything. This was also written on the LOR as if I were previously warned about this issue. (I was not.)


    I was walking in expecting to talk about a referral to move off base. I had no knowledge what so ever that I was going to get an ass chewing.



    Check, and check. Took my medicine and shut the hell up. I've pretty much agreed with you on everything up until your comment about me "staying in the air force with my current attitude."[/quote]


    This is my 5th pcs, counting 2 tech schools in my career. While I haven't perfected the art of making the best first impression, I feel I've done pretty damn good so far. With the obvious exception of my current situation.

    And to the flag bearers, I'll recap.

    1. New base, been here for about a month.
    2. NEVER had any type of punishment prior.
    3. Properly greet and show respect for one flight chief, but fail to show the other the same respect, because I ASSumed that the office had an informal setting. (so as long as you arent in there for any remedial actions) I am also a bit humbled sometimes by higher ranking individuals and am used to them initiating the greeting. Keep in mind the meeting with the Senior official in question was done at a later time than the initial greet of the other flight chief.
    4. "Argued" with my PCM that I had the right to get a second opinion on my injury. AND "demanded" to receive the proper care that last PCM documented in my records.

    That's it. What makes it worse is that I was fully expecting to talk to the shirt about me moving off base and that was it!
    Nobody has ever told me or corrected me about my actions towards SNCO's. If somebody would have warned me, I would have adjusted a lot more quickly. (No problem shaking hands, smiling and giving a greeting most of the time) I've just had a problem with acting a little too comfortable, but trust me, nothing enough to warrant this type of punishment. waaa waaa.

    I know what some of ya'll are probably saying, a military member shouldn't have to be "warned" about bearing. So I am in the wrong, but from no warnings or anything, to an LOR is a bit extreme.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2006
  16. DSHR

    DSHR Well-Known Member

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    What the fuck is a shirt :rofl: :confused:.
     
  17. brackac

    brackac Fuck all of this. OT Supporter

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    The name comes from back when the 1st Sergeant was also the supply clerk. Every time a new load of uniforms came in the 1st Sergeant would get the first shirt.
     
  18. Jyokker

    Jyokker The trouser snake is very aggressive. It will corn

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    Well at least you admitted it was your fault. The good thing is you can press forward and make up for your first impression.

    This is the difference between young military members and most civilian college students.
     
  19. dubrocker

    dubrocker sho nuff

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    i wasn't trying to be bitter, i was just referencing the current state of the air force and how quickly it is down sizing. making a bad first impression will put your head on the chopping block; maintaining your current status with your chain of command will ultimately drop the axe.

    just consider your LOR your first and last warning to remember your rank and who you are standing in front of.
     
  20. evan2

    evan2 Guest

    umm isnt an LOA worse then an LOR?
    LOC is where you want it and honestly there is what it should be, if you never had issues before and werent talked to about the ordeal

    dubrocker please shut the fuck up, the dude is getting in trouble for some nonsence becuase people just want to abuse thier power over some petty shit

    we have far worse crap in the military to worry about then this crap...
     
  21. Wild Country

    Wild Country New Member

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    Sounds like something the 381st would do. What squadron are you in?
     
  22. Zee

    Zee New Member

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    IMO, just ignore it and mind your P'a & Q's for a while....there are some NCO's that are total pricks and there is not much you can do about them.....Did you take it up with your commander?
     

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