daisy-chaining routers

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by qgroff, Apr 4, 2007.

  1. qgroff

    qgroff New Member

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    It's obviously not ideal, but is it possible? What kind of performance degradation might I expect?

    What I'm actually trying to do is connect my Wii to the internet. I could buy the wired adapter, but I figure I might as well get a wireless router while I'm at it and lose the cable to my laptop. But, I have Vonage and need to keep my current router (otherwise I end up spending more money than this is all worth to me).

    Any hints/suggestions/answers/sympathy? ;)
     
  2. Supernaut

    Supernaut New Member

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    You won't notice a measurable degradation. You will have some extra steps involved in port forwarding, and you will need to set a different subnet on each router.

    You could disable the router function of the wireless router and have it function simply as a wireless access point as an alternative.
     
  3. qgroff

    qgroff New Member

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    That's probably what I would want to do. Is this the simplest way to create a wireless access point or could I buy a cheaper product that would accomplish the same thing?
     
  4. Supernaut

    Supernaut New Member

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  5. Wolf68k

    Wolf68k OT Supporter

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    However you'll find that usually those WAPs cost more than a wireless router.

    Yes you can connect one router to another. It should even be mentioned in the router's manual.
     
  6. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    disable NAT and forego the WAN port and simply use a crossover cable to one of the LAN ports and -- volia -- inexpensive WAP.
     
  7. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    I think I need a diagram of what Jolly's talking about, and why it will work. I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm just not getting it.

    For what it's worth, www.cyberguys.com sells a Superlooper portable crossover that will convert any regular Ethernet cable into a crossover cable; I've got one and it's come in handy plenty of times at work. Never need to worry about whether I have a crossover cable handy.
     
  8. mdaniel

    mdaniel S is for Shiksa

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    Its easy. Picture your typical 4 port wired router (router #1) with one PC attached. Call the router 192.168.1.1 and assume its DHCP server hands out 192.168.1.100-150.

    Now temporarily connect your PC to a wireless router (router #2) and make its LAN IP address 192.168.1.99. Disable its DHCP server.

    When you connect a LAN port of router #2 to a LAN port of router #1, the wireless router becomes an access point. Since everything is on the LAN side of router #2, its basically a wired to wireless bridge. Don't connect router #2's WAN port to anything. Router #1's DHCP server serves both wired and wireless clients.
     
  9. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    I sorta understand it now. Strangely, I can understand all kinds of things without visual aids, but wiring diagrams escape me.
     
  10. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    This is networking 101 stuff... If you don't grasp this concept, there are issues:

    [​IMG]
     
  11. 5Gen_Prelude

    5Gen_Prelude There might not be an "I" in the word "Team", but

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    And you might not even need the cable between the two routers to be a cross-over if it has the circuitry to do the cross-over internally.
     
  12. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Okay, let me make sure I understand now.

    The wired router continues to be a router, with its WAN port connected to the cable modem or what-have-you. The wireless router is told to stop issuing its own IP addresses, and then a crossover cable is used to connect a LAN port on the wireless router to a LAN port on the wired router.

    The wired router sees the connection to the wireless router as just another downstream device, sharing the wired router's WAN connection with whatever else is plugged into it. The wireless router also sees its connection to the wired router as another downstream device that wants to talk to whatever's broadcasting across the wireless carrier, and as far as the wireless router knows, there is no internet connection to speak of, since the WAN port is not connected to anything.

    The trick is that the "downstream device" plugged into the wireless router is actually the entire Internet (so to speak), and so anything broadcasting across the wireless carrier will have access to the Internet, even though the wireless router's WAN port is disconnected.

    Is that about it? Sorry, by the time I started caring about this sort of stuff, I was already working for a company that just buys whatever proper equipment it needs for its network.
     
  13. mdaniel

    mdaniel S is for Shiksa

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    Yeah that's pretty much it. Think of a typical consumer router as a router + 4 port 10/100 wired switch + wireless access point (basically a wired to wireless bridge). By ignoring its WAN port, the router part of the device goes away. Now its just passing Ethernet packets between its 4 wired ports and its wireless segment.
     
  14. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    not even. Most consumer routers are actually called "gateways". They consist of a *SIX* port switch + wireless access point. The switch is a simple managed variant that supports 2 VLANs. One port is internally connected to the WAP. The 4 "wired" ports and wireless port are placed on the first VLAN which is assigned as the "LAN". The remaining port is placed on the second VLAN which is assigned as the "WAN". Third-party firmware can take advantage of this fact by allowing you to assign additional ports to the WAN, to re-assign the WAN back to the LAN VLAN (perfect for this scenario), or to make the WLAN the WAN VLAN interface (perfect for wireless bridging).

    click for bigger version:
    [​IMG]
     

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