Custom Enclosure question...

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by Elderain, Nov 12, 2004.

  1. Elderain

    Elderain New Member

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    I'm drawing up a custom enclosure, this will be my first time building one, so I had some basic questions I was hoping someone knew answers to :x:

    Whats the minimum distance I should keep from the cutout for the subwoofer, to the edge of the board?

    How exactly does one carpet a enclosure? I get the get the general idea (I think). Sand box, glue box, roll down carpet and cut. What I dont get is how you fold edges, etc. so that you dont see any cuts, or gaps, or lumps on the corners. Do you overlap sections? Or do you cut at every corner? Hows this work?

    The subwoofers I have, have a reccomended enclosure volume of .5 cu ft. Does that include the mass of the woofer in the box, or is it the volume before the sub is in there?
     
  2. 04

    04 Guest

    Doesnt really matter, but you need to make sure that the entire frame of the speaker doesnt go off the edge or something. Also make sure that the enclosure leaves at least a couple inches between the backplate of the speaker and the rear enclosure wall.



    .5cuft generally is the reccomended volume not counting driver, port or bracing displacements. So you'll need to find out how much space the speaker displaces. Also, .5cuft is rather small, what woofer are you using?
     
  3. Elderain

    Elderain New Member

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    Yeah this is kinda where I am stumped too... Off the manafacturer's web site, it says it reccomends a .5 cu ft enclosure. The cutout for the sub, is 9.5" and the depth is 5.4". If I make a box, Inside Dimensions of 12x12x6", thats exactly .5cu ft, but that only leaves like 1.4" all around the sub, and, like .6" from the back of the sub. This seems really small.

    I called Crutchfield's lil advisor people because I couldnt find shit on the net, and they said that the .5cu was just the volume of the box, I didn't need to calculate for the displacement of the sub. So I :dunno:

    The sub is a 10" SQ sub, not SPL (leaving out the brand name, OT already gave the :nono: on it lol), I don't care though. Its what fits in my newly revised budget, and Its much better then what I have, and I like it :o


    EDIT: Wow, I'm sorry dude, I accidentally hit the edit button on your post instead of the quote :o :doh:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2004
  4. pharcyde183

    pharcyde183 Nissan by nature

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    better be OZ Audio
     
  5. Elderain

    Elderain New Member

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    wtf is OZ Audio? :p and no.
     
  6. Elderain

    Elderain New Member

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    Actually it's Soundstream. I know people didn't really care for them, but :dunno: I went, I listened, It sounded fine to me. I'm used to lower end Kenwood stuff that was in my last car anyhow, so anything is better. The budget I thought I had just went out the door, so I can't go with the stuff I'd really like. I have a friend that deals with the stuff, and is getting me a good deal on it so, It works. At this point, I'm past asking opinions on the gear, I don't care what everyone else thinks about it :p
     
  7. 04

    04 Guest



    Well, dimensions of 12x12x6 would give you a volume of .5cuft, but thats before port,speaker, and bracing displacments. And I'd personally leave more space behind the subwoofer than than .6".

    Also, you'd probably like the sound a bit better with a larger enclosure if you're into sound quality. Do you have the t/s parameters of the woofer?
     
  8. 04

    04 Guest

    Soundstream makes good components.

    Who told you that they were bad?
     
  9. Elderain

    Elderain New Member

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    Last thread I started, Everyone said :nono: that the old Soundstream was good, but the new was bought by Lightning Audio and was meh.

    Specifically this is the setup I was looking at:

    Pioneer DEH-P8600MP - Headunit

    Soundstream XTS6.5 - 6.5" Speakers for the doors
    Soundstream XTS4.6 - 4"x6" Speakers for the dash
    Soundstream TWS.1 - 1" Tweeters for... somewhere :o

    Those are all gonna be powered by the headunit. I think I need to find a crossover? for hooking up the tweeters. I'm still not sure on all of that, my friend was gonna help me out with everything from buying to installing.

    Soundstream VGW-10 - 10" 500 Watts RMS SQ Subwoofers 4-ohm DVC (will wire it for 2-ohms)

    I've got 2 amps I've been looking at to power them, The one I'd rather, is fucking huge and I'm having a problem designing a box the way I'd like because of it.


    Soundsteam VGA-800.2 - 2 Channel, 400 watts RMS each channel @ 2-ohms
    Soundstream XTA880.2 - 2 Channel, 440 watts RMS each channel @ 2-ohms (Its huge, 27"s long, and the spot I'd like to have something fit in is only 17.5" Including room for wires on each end)

    Is 40 watts, each channel going to make a big difference? These things are gonna be about 24" from my ears, It's in the Extended cab of my truck. Is underpowering them a problem since there RMS is 500 watts?
     
  10. 04

    04 Guest

    Yup, you'll need a crossover for the tweeters (if it doesnt already come with one). However, instead of so many speakers, why not just get a single 6.5" woofer for the door, and a single 1" tweeter? Im sure Soundstream has a component set that has both plus the appropriate crossover. You might want to get an external amp though if you listen pretty loud.

    As for the amplifier, a 40 watt per channel dfference wont even be noticeable, so I'd just get the amplifier that fits best.
     
  11. veonake

    veonake OnT poster, OT lurker

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    I agree, doesn't seem to make sense to get those 4x6's. Does soundstream have a component set with 6.5's and a pair of tweeters? If they did then they'll include the crossovers, one less thing to worry about. And also agreeing with 04, you're probably going to want a seperate amp if you listen to loud levels, not to mention it will make them sound better.

    One more thing, 400 watts @ 2 ohms is [email protected], and similarly, [email protected] is [email protected] ohms. Maybe you already realized this, I'm just unsure why you listed its 2ohm rating when most speakers are going to be 4ohm for car audio. Some subs go lower of course, but I haven't heard of components that are 2ohm.
     
  12. DaddyThirdLeg

    DaddyThirdLeg SMASH puny humans

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    ID makes 2ohm components, or at least they used to :dunno:
     
  13. pharcyde183

    pharcyde183 Nissan by nature

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    i'm sure you'll be happy with your soundstream setup so it doesn't really matter what OT thinks. It's your ears
     
  14. Elfling

    Elfling New Member

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    Edit: meh, posted from the gf's house :o Tis me, Elderain :o

    I had the 4x6's listed because they replaces a stock speaker location :dunno: As far as why I rated everything at 2ohm's, is because its a dual 4-ohm voice coil, so I'll be wiring them in parallel, to make them 2-ohms. Each channel on the amp is rated for 440/400 (depending on amp) at 2-ohms, I was just showing how much power they would get (provided I did my wiring right)

    Soundstream does make a component 6.5 set w/ all that but its like 140 bucks, compared to the 6.5 im getting which is like, 30 bucks. the 4x6 i like 20, and the tweeters are like 30ish, going from memory on what my friend quoted me. Provided I had the budget I wanted, it might have been a possability.
     
  15. veonake

    veonake OnT poster, OT lurker

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    $30 6.5's? Are you getting them at very good cost or something? Not sure if that's going to be much of an upgrade for you. I'd buy the $140 components. As for the 4x6's, well, I still say you don't need them, and I wouldn't spend the extra money just to fill empty speaker holes.
     
  16. Elderain

    Elderain New Member

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    Friend owns a shop, sells a ton of it and gets it dirt cheap. It's also not the best stuff in the world so :dunno: I'll have to ask em how much the components are.

    Designing the box for the back of my truck like I want is tough, even with a 10" because of the design of the truck, its making my box huge because of the shape it has to contour to. I was debating on stepping down to 8" subs, because they would fit where I would like. What would be some advantages/disadvantages of using like, 3 or 4 8" subs, instead of 2 10" or 12"?
     
  17. veonake

    veonake OnT poster, OT lurker

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    Well, it would take 3 8" subs to be about equivalent in surface area to 2 10's, and 5 8" subs to equal that of 2 12's. 04 is going to come in here pissing and moaning after I say this, but generally when you buy a sub with larger cone diameter, its frequency response curve is not going to dip as far down towards the 30Hz and below levels and will produce those very low sounds louder. So, the 8" might not be able to kick you as hard in the chest on rap, etc. But, I think JL's 8w7 does a pretty good job, however I have a feeling that's out of your price range. Of course the advantage to a smaller sub is space savings, and often times a tighter sound.
     
  18. Elderain

    Elderain New Member

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    Yeah space would make me happy, but a larger box and better sound would also :) they would fit in the enclosure the way I would really like to design it. They are alot cheaper too then what I was originally looking at, anc could fit 4 of them, easily, with room for amps. And yeah the W7's are outa my price range. Even on my old budget, one 10" W6 was pushing it. Now the budget is even more revised :p
     
  19. 04

    04 Guest

    :rolleyes:

    Perhaps if you knew what caused the frequency response to be affected in that way, you would know that saying that was a vast overgeneralization. It's true that within a subwoofer brand line, the larger diameter woofers will typically respond lower, but that CERTAINLY doesnt extend between brands. The QTS, VAS and FS of a speaker estimate the small signal response of a woofer, and NONE of those parameters are soley dependent on the diameter of the cone, or the radiating area. This can be shown with simple math. Kinda hard to back yourself up when the facts show otherwise.

    Most subwoofers can play FLAT to 20hz or lower in a car anyways, so it shouldnt be an issue, unless you are striving for an unlinear frequency response.

    At any rate, my guess is the only reason you said the first line was to bait me, so I'm apparantly wasting my time :mb:
     
  20. 04

    04 Guest

    The difference between a larger woofer and a smaller one, is that the larger one will get louder, assuming they have the same linear excursion (movement back and forth). However, if you compare a 10" to an 8" of the same brand, usually the 10" will extend lower if it has a larger box.

    If the 8" woofers fit better than the 10", there isnt any reason why you couldnt use them. I'd personally rather have the 2 10" woofers, as they would probably be a bit cheaper, but it really depends.
     
  21. Elderain

    Elderain New Member

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    My friend actually checked out a few other brands, for pricing for me. Alpine stuff came out just a tad more then Soundstream at his dealer cost. Is there an obvious choice between the two?
     
  22. veonake

    veonake OnT poster, OT lurker

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    Jesus H. Christ. I mentioned your name so that HOPEFULLY you wouldn't reply with this kind of post! Get off my back for once. I fucking used the word "generally", I didn't say it always applied. You're seriously starting to piss me off.

    And then in your next post you go and say that the larger woofer is going to get louder, JUST WHAT I SAID! And how do you know I even meant across brands? I'm not so stupid to think that one manufacturer couldn't make an 8" that could play lower than another manufacturer's 12". Ugh.

    I have a general understanding of why that is, and a general understanding of sound waves as I'm currently in an advanced physics course at my college that dealt with waves. Honestly, you just seem to be looking for excuses to be a jerk to me.
     
  23. 04

    04 Guest

    I find that VERY hard to believe. I won't get off your back if you're wrong on something, sorry. I don't argue shit I dont know about, and I'd hope you wouldnt do the same.

    Except it GENERALLY doesnt apply. I could say the exact opposite of what you said, but as long as I said GENERALLY, it'd be ok, right? :rolleyes: And quoting a frequency of 30hz SURE AS HELL ISNT GENERAL.


    :rofl: Then why didnt you say that originally? No, you had to load your response because you KNEW it would bait me, right?

    I've never been a jerk to you, unless you were one first. I've argued your misinformation, but if you consider argument being a jerk to someone, then whatever. Apparantly you cannot be wrong in your audio knowledge? :dunno:

    And I doubt your advanced physics class covers theile small parameters and how they affect the driver response (which is what determines the response of the driver, along with the enclosure), because f you think that the diameter of the cone determines the low frequency response (REMEMBER THIS IS A SUBWOOFER), then you shouldnt have passed physics I. And I'm not saying that to be a jerk, I'm saying that because its the flat out truth.

    At any rate, if you STILL want to argue this with me, start your own thread. This is Elderain's thread, and at this point, our arguement has NOTHING to do with his questions.
     
  24. 04

    04 Guest

    I installed a Type R component set in a guys car a few years ago, and it sounded pretty good (although that would also be affected by the car's acoustics as well :) )

    How much extra did the Alpine cost over the Soundstream?
     
  25. veonake

    veonake OnT poster, OT lurker

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    I did NOT say it to bait you, end story. I said it in the hopes of not having to have this type of argument. I've expressed an extreme disinterest in dealing with these arguments, why would I bait you? I don't enjoy getting mad.

    No, it doesn't cover theile paramaters, and I never said diameter determines low frequency response, I only said that often times in subs the two seem to be correlatory (notice correlatory, not causal before you say something more, sigh). I know my 12w3v2 12" does not reproduce low frequencies as well as a 15w3v2, probably because the 15w3v2 has a longer linear excursion. And sorry, sound isn't covered in physics 1, its physics 3, and even if I did say that diameter affected low frequency response on a test, there's a lot more to physics than audio lol. Gimme a break.

    My point about getting off my back, was that if anything, I made a minor overgeneralization and you went crazy about it, JUST like I thought. That is the exact reason why I mentioned something originally, hoping you wouldn't go nuts over something so small. Obviously this backfired. I never claimed to be an audio expert, I don't know as much as you, do you want a pat on the back? I don't make huge mistatements, and if I'm shown to be wrong, I will accept it. :eek4:

    Edit: And btw, I said "towards the 30Hz and below range". Do you disagree that this is not a range that shows obvious differences in the infrasonic ability of a sub? I didn't say exactly 30Hz...
     

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