GUN Co-worker in a shooting on Saturday

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by JaimeZX, Jan 24, 2008.

  1. JaimeZX

    JaimeZX Formerly of :Sep 2001: fame - Also: Sprout Crew OT Supporter

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    True story, happened to a co-worker of mine. We'll call him "E" for anonyminity. It was about 7PM, so the sun had set and it was getting dark.

    E had just pulled up to a buddy's apartment and was getting out of his car. Being a lefty, he carries at his 8 o'clock.

    As he was getting out of the vehicle, he had one bag of groceries in each hand. He was intending to transfer both bags to his right hand, but before he had a chance to do so, he noticed something out of his peripheral vision.

    At his 7 o'clock (blind spot), a man had walked up to him quickly and unnoticed. Poor SA on his (E's) part, he points out.

    He turned towards the man, who stopped about 5 feet from him, gun drawn and pointing at E (from the hip.)

    "This is a robbery. Give me your wallet."

    E thought for a second and decided to drop the groceries and draw. (Later he noted that a wallet is easily replaceable and if the same exact situation rose again he'd probably just hand it over.)

    So. He dropped the groceries and acted like he was reaching for his wallet, but instead drew on the thief.

    The thief turned and ran about 15 feet, then turned back towards E. At this point E says time slowed down, he got tunnel vision, and his hearing went away. He saw two (muzzle) flashes. He returned fire, 5 shots from his new Colt Defender.

    E was not hit.

    4 of E's 5 shots are accounted for. With 3 of them he killed a brand-new, just installed air conditioner in the building behind the thief. (Apartment complex apparently not seeking restitution as they are pleased he chased an armed robber away.) The final shot may or may not have hit the criminal. He says as he fired the last shot, the criminal turned around in a funny, fast way and ran. No blood was found.

    Criminal still at large.
    Cops say it was a good shoot.
    Apartment complex happy.
    E still a little shaken up.

    Anyway. Just thought I'd share. :o
     
  2. Fire Sauce

    Fire Sauce New Member

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    Good shooting. :mamoru:

    At least the result is good.
     
  3. smartypants

    smartypants New Member

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    If the guy was a cop TL1000 would post a news article about it.
     
  4. Sardaukar

    Sardaukar Active Member

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    I wouldn't classify that as a good shoot. No one knows if he even hit his intended target.

    I've never been in this situation. So, I can't say I would have done any better.
     
  5. GlobeGuy

    GlobeGuy New Member

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    I can imagine getting a perfect grip when you draw under stress would be the toughest part. You'd probably either undergrip or overgrip 90% of the time. I practice unholstering and holstering more than anything else right now.
     
  6. JaimeZX

    JaimeZX Formerly of :Sep 2001: fame - Also: Sprout Crew OT Supporter

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    Obviously he didn't hit his intended target, but (a) "E" wasn't hurt and (b) the theif will probably think twice about holding someone up next time. Overall the outcome was positive.

    And I need to practice drawing more. :o
     
  7. [DWI]

    [DWI] Master of Nothing

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    At least he is aware that he made a couple mistakes, being unaware of the situation and as he said deciding to draw, its pretty risky to draw on someone who already has a weapon trained on you.

    I've never been in that situation, but I can imagine that there is enough adrenaline in your system that you aren't thinking so much as reacting and most of us probably train more with drawing and firing that we do giving up.

    Did Mr. E say if the shots by the robber were accounted for? Might be a little spooky to know exactly how close he came to getting hit.

    Even though it was clear cut self defense and Mr. E was fired on first, if I were him I probably wouldn't talk about it too much, even with civil immunity and clearly acting in self defense.

    All in all a good outcome, as long as the air handler he shot didn't double as part of the heating system.
     
  8. JaimeZX

    JaimeZX Formerly of :Sep 2001: fame - Also: Sprout Crew OT Supporter

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    I was wondering about the BG's shots, I don't know about them. I can ask next time I see him; he works in a different building so I just see him every few days usually.
     
  9. Section8

    Section8 .

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    Wow, glad your friend is ok.

    I need to practice drawing :o
     
  10. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    My big question is, does he carry a backup magazine? Did he move before, during, and after shooting? Did he look around at all for other threats? If he had a spare mag, did he reload?
     
  11. fatcow

    fatcow OT Supporter

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    I woulda just handed over my wallet, a couple calls to the credit card companies is cheaper than losing your life. If anything, at least draw on the criminal as he's walking away from you, not when the guns freakin pointing at you :O!
     
  12. AB13

    AB13 New Member

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    Does this clear the air now about wether you should carry with one in the chamber? The time you would have had to take to chamber a round is all the time he needs to put some hot lead in your ass.

    I remember getting that same tunnel vision and same "deafening" fear a few times. Proper stress training can definitely alleviate a lot of that so it allows you to think and react with a clear mind to do what you must.

    Does he have any defensive training? If not, he did exceptionally well for an untrained civi.
     
  13. AB13

    AB13 New Member

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    Actually, they would fry you in court for shooting a "threat" that was retreating. And just because you comply, doesn't ensure your life. If you want "assurance" you have to do so yourself.
     
  14. mattsb2000

    mattsb2000 OT Supporter

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    How do you know the shitbag wouldn't shoot you after you hand over your stuff?
     
  15. GlobeGuy

    GlobeGuy New Member

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    .
    Say goodbye to your freedom.
     
  16. [DWI]

    [DWI] Master of Nothing

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    I think the point is most of the time it isn't the brightest idea to attempt to unholster and take aim at a person who already has a weapon trained on you, granted this time it was at the hip. They have the ability to fire well before you have acquired a shot. Luck and a shitty criminal were on this guys side this time.

    No one is saying the criminal isn't going to shoot him after the fact, but it is less likely, than the criminal seeing the gun and firing on you in a form of self preservation.

    Really the only idea I would have for this situation shy of just giving him the wallet and hoping for the best, is to take out the wallet and "drop" it off to the side. With some luck the criminal will focus on the wallet and may even turn slightly to pick it up, giving you a chance to draw with a gun not drawn on you.

    There are just so many factors to be taken into consideration, that even if we talked to Mr. E and he told us everything he remember, we might not here the tone in the guys voice or the look in his eye. Those little things could be the hints between you are either fighting or losing your life and wallet.
     
  17. xpinchx

    xpinchx hes got a nice cock, on the thin side but its stil

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    I thought I already replied to this post but I guess it didn't go through. In that situation I think it was a terrible decision to draw. He should've just handed over his wallet.
     
  18. AB13

    AB13 New Member

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    That is all individual discretion and agree, sometimes it's not worth it. But I actually practice drawing from concealment quite often. Up against the timer, I can draw and hit a 6" steel plate 10 yards away in just under a second. I just hope I don't get robbed by another IDPA or USPSA shooter. :x:
     
  19. AB13

    AB13 New Member

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    I shoot with an EMT at our club. He's actually our club champion. He says too often he is on scene in a shooting, and the vicitim is missing a wallet and valuables guess that was an even worst decision?

    I think at worst it was a "gutsy" decision, but I wouldn't go as far as call it a"terrible" decision. If you are not comfortable doing so, I would advise against it. But if you are comfortable, or actually train for it. It's your best chance at guaranteeing your safety.
     
  20. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    I don't know if it would actually work out that way in real life but I've always thought the wallet toss then draw while he is distracted sounded like a reasonably sound idea. He can take the wallet and leave or you're prepared if he continues to threaten your life.

    I would like to hear commentary from those who carry unchambered though.
     
  21. mattsb2000

    mattsb2000 OT Supporter

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    I agree with you.

    This situation had to be really fucking scary.

    Not entirely sure what I would have done. Probably pissed all over myself while giving him my wallet. :wtc:
     
  22. AB13

    AB13 New Member

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    Actually, I think that's a great idea with the wallet toss.

    But what if he gets pissed and shoots you first and then picks it up. I guess either way your screwed.

    I figure if I draw, and freak him out he may be forced to miss. Depends on the situation, distance, etc. But if I felt I had a reasonable chance, best believe I will try. Even if it means going for cover and avoiding a "non vital hit" and getting shot in my leg or ass. If I return fire, I will at least ensure I will be able to get some shots off for a possible COM hit on the assailant. Better than being guaranteed dead.

    If he's 5-10 yards away, and holding a quivering "Lorcin" or "Raven" pistol. Best believe he's getting a mozambique special.

    I'm banking on him being both nervous, and a shitty gun and shitty aim.
     
  23. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    I don't think there's a way to be 100% screw proof if you're standing there with empty hands and he has a gun pointed at you. You're right though that if you're trained you've probably got a huge advantage over a criminal who likely doesn't practice, may not have a full or even loaded gun of potentially questionable reliability, and in this case is firing from the hip even.
     
  24. AB13

    AB13 New Member

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    Absolutely nothing is guaranteed. But I will try to tip the scale in my favor if I can, even if it's just %75 chance and it means being shot but living.

    The key is anticipation and watching your 6 at all times and avoiding situations were you can be placed in a comprimisable situation.
     
  25. [DWI]

    [DWI] Master of Nothing

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    I think a key difference in making this decision if an honest understanding of your skill level and amount of practice.

    You for example have a good bit of training, talent and practice, would probably be good to deal with most situations that didn't deal with a well trained or experienced criminal getting the drop on you.

    While for many of us, we are decent shots, can easily and repeatedly hit a torso sized target at 20 yards, but haven't done much drilling under pressure or belong to a range that does not allow starting from a holster.

    While in both cases the first line of defense is situational awareness, in your case you would be better able to deal with someone getting the drop on you than most of us.
     

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