GUN Closing the gun show loophole

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Soybomb, Jan 6, 2009.

  1. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    Since I know some of you think it is reasonable... :big grin:
    http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/article/id/108236/
    On a side note the dishonesty of the gun grabbers calling it the "gun show loophole" to mislead the rubes really pisses me off. If you believe this is necessary gun control then at least be honest that it isn't about gun shows, its about banning the private sale of firearms.
     
  2. AVengeance

    AVengeance Active Member

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    How are private party sales banned? Couldn't they just come up with a way for a private party to run a check on someone? In this mythical scenario, the father could still give the gun to the son or grandson, and then they could "officiate" the transaction by doing a background check themselves, or going to a gun dealer or pawn shop to finish the transaction.

    Not saying I agree with it, just saying there's quite a bit of teary-eyed liberalism in that scenario.

    And as for gun shows, why can't private sellers at gun shows do background checks? They just fax in a form, right?
     
  3. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    Simply put, that isn't the agenda. The gun control agenda ends all private sales and forces them to go through dealers for background checks and of course the accompanying records keeping. CA is already like this and I believe there may be another state or two that has fallen that direction as well.

    You've made the mistake of assuming that we're dealing with rational people who state what they want and are trying to fix real problems. If that were the case we wouldn't ever hear the words "assault rifle." For that matter we wouldn't talk about gun control, we'd be looking for ways to prevent criminal behavior and how to better weed out violent criminals once they've identified themselves.
     
  4. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    The system isn't open to private individuals and they don't make any proposals to open it up.

    They want to require all sales go through a background check, but they don't want to open the system up. See the problem?

    Now, sure I guess you could go to a FFL to do it, but those prices just keep going up...
     
  5. vwpilot

    vwpilot New Member

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    It doesnt have to be that way though. MD requires private sales to be background checked. All you do is meet at a state police station, say you're doing the transaction, the buyer fills out associated forms with the police (same ones they get from a dealer) and then if its not disapproved within 8 days, seller can hand over gun to buyer. Doesnt even cost anything to do. You can also do it through a dealer and the dealer will usually charge a fee for you taking their time to do the paperwork, but if you go to the police directly it doesnt cost any kind of transfer. Doesnt really restrict private sales at all except to those that shouldnt be getting them to begin with.

    You're right and therein lies the problem. I've made it known I dont think its unreasonable to require a private scenario as I stated above. I also believe there could be a perfectly acceptable way for private individuals to do background checks at gun shows.

    Problem is as much as the gun lobby doesnt want to give in any, the antis dont want to give in either. For them to agree to a simple method such as the above doesnt seem like it would ever happen, and the gun lobby doesnt want to show any signs of weakness by proposing such a thing either. Its a horrid stalemate and in the end I think its just going to come down to executive orders and laws proposed by those in office that are just self serving, then we're all in trouble.

    I've said before, that I would not mind to see a REASONABLE compromise drafted by the gun lobby in HOPES that it would show some sense of trying to work with the antis and do something reasonable.

    However, as has been pointed out to me on many ocassions (and something I DO agree with), we're not dealing with reasonable people on the other side of the issue and it would likely lead no where except for them to use it against us in the public eye saying something like even gun people agree something needs to be done.

    And even if it did work out, I dont think the antis would let it lie there and would continue to try to work toward total disarmament.

    So while I can sit here and say I dont think its unreasonable to "close the loophole" ;) I dont think its realistic to expect a good compromise to ever be found.
     
  6. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    There will NEVER BE A COMPRIMISE because CRIMINALS WON'T GO THROUGH THE BACKGROUND CHECK PROCESS

    All you do is MAKE THINGS DIFFICULT for good people.

    It does NOTHING to prevent crime. NOTHING.

    Anyone that thinks it would is an idiot and should buy a gun to kill themselves.
     
  7. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    Yay, gun registration is now free. :mamoru:

    Of course you're also neglecting the infringements on freedom that delays and false positives with the nics systems cause.
     
  8. jehan60188

    jehan60188 New Member

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    Sure, we should just force everyone to do background checks-

    seller: "Need your info for a background check"
    unwitting buyer: "Sure, I'll just hand over my name, address, and ssn!"

    see the problem?
     
  9. T0nyGTSt

    T0nyGTSt New Member

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    why do anything is it's ineffective?

    there's nothing to show that closing the loophole has any effect you why 'compromise' at all?

    a compromise is giving tacit approval to them? why should they get any approval at all if they are 100% wrong?

    you give the Bradys anything they want more
     
  10. johan

    johan Active Member

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    gun show loophole is a great term. It casts a slant on the whole process with seemingly innocent doublespeak. Spin at its finest.


    Loophole. What decent law abiding citizen doesn't immediately think of something shifty going on when they hear "loophole".

    Gun show. For the unfamiliar, I'm sure they think of this as some kind of arms bazaar theyve seen in countless movies. Unregulated goods being exchanged for cash after a furtive look left & right.


    Great way to bring the non-initiated masses onside.
    Once onside...well...might (in numbers) makes right... Done deal.
     
  11. HisXLNC

    HisXLNC ๑۩۞۩๑ Hot ๑۩۞۩๑

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    Even if they close this "loophole", it won't stop people from privately selling firearms without a background check. They can't even stop 7-11 from selling cigs and beer to minors.
     
  12. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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    I honestly do not have a problem with there being a law mandating background checks for guns sold at a gun show... by private owners that is.
    It's already mandatory for dealers to do it, so it wouldn't be a problem to mandate everyone to do it... AT GUN SHOWS.

    But that law needs to stop there. Not private sales between 2 people elsewhere, or family members passing heirlooms down to kin. That's just pure stupidity.
     
  13. jehan60188

    jehan60188 New Member

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    problem with that is, how do you know that gun X was sold at a gun show, or just outside of the show?
     
  14. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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    I don't. I didn't say I had the answer to that.
    I suppose if sellers are registered to be in the gun show (I admit I don't even know how that works), then it would be easier. If not, then it's pointless.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2009
  15. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    ...but dealers being required to do background checks at gun shows has nothing to do with it being a gun show...
     
  16. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    :rofl: gun shows are just places where lots of dealers come and make it convenient

    people act like gun shows are these mythical things that are so different than gun stores
     
  17. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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    And your point is? Dealers have to do background checks regardless. Doesn't matter where they do business.
     
  18. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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    Right, I definitely said it was mythical.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2009
  19. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    That is kind of my point. If you're going to make private sales be like dealer sales in one place, every other place pretty much follows.
     
  20. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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    Not really, it's a public gathering where dealers and private sellers alike get together.
    I'm not saying I disagree with you either. I'm just saying I have no problem mandating just that once instance requiring private sellers to also do a background check, but only while selling a gun during the gun show.
    And I don't mean outside in the parking lot, I mean a registered seller INSIDE the building during the gun show.

    Anyway, I'm sure there's no way to make it work, and we all know liberals, they're not going to just want this to be gun shows.
     
  21. KGB ate my bread

    KGB ate my bread Made you look. OT Supporter

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    they could RFID tag every convicted felon. That way you'd just have to "scan" someone to see if they were legit or not.

    Not a bad idea because it'd haev other purposes too :o


    probably not ethical though.
     
  22. idleprocess

    idleprocess Bring a dollar with you baby in the cold cold grou

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    MOTHERFUCKING DAWT

    The Brady Campaign, VPC, et al are deluding themselves and the general public if they think their lobbying has jack fucking shit to do with preventing gun violence or making America one iota safer for the law-abiding.

    By definition gun crime occurs because there are guns, but engaging in the hand-waving of somehow eliminating legal civilian access to guns does not eliminate gun crime by any stretch of the imagination and certainly doesn't do anything about violent crime. Much like the absurd war on drugs, gun prohibition fails to address the root of the problem.

    No, the issue of preventing violent crime requires cultural and social introspection and action that this country is simply not willing to engage in. If the anti's would start focusing on the actual causes of criminality they might accomplish something; as it stands they're just an exceptionally useless faction in the great endless culture war.
     
  23. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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    What the hell does that have to do with an organized gun show?
     
  24. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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    Because gun shows are usually big and organized like fairs and car shows and whatnot, and because the law would be uniform for everyone, not just dealers with FFL's.

    I don't know about gun shows elsewhere, all I have to go off of are the gun shows I've been to, and here they're not held in a parking lot with a tent, they're huge fucking shows held in convention centers with thousands of people.

    If someone wants to get together with another person in a parking lot or behind the local Motel6 and sell a gun, I have no problem with that, but in a gun show the rules should be the same for everyone.
     
  25. striker754

    striker754 Chillin

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    why not just find a private party seller in the gun show and then go behind the motel6. Your logic fails.
     

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