GUN Castle doctrine may clear Kingsland homeowner

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by TL1000RSquid, Aug 3, 2008.

  1. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    Castle doctrine may clear Kingsland homeowner

    Posted: Aug 1, 2008 03:32 AM

    KINGSLAND, Texas (KXAN) - Details are still emerging about a Kingsland homeowner who shot a man he accused of attempting to burglarize his neighbor's house, but until the investigation is complete, the Llano County District Attorney cannot say whether the state's new "castle doctrine" would apply to Wednesday night's shooting.

    "The law of self-defense is very complicated," said District Attorney Sam Oatman.

    The so-called "castle doctrine" law was one of the first bills Gov. Rick Perry signed into law during the last legislative session. The law gives Texans a stronger legal defense to defend themselves with deadly force to protect both themselves and their belongings or workplace.

    According to the law, a person has no duty to retreat from an intruder before resorting to deadly force, which would give him the right to shoot an intruder, even if that intruder was retreating. For instance, if a burglar was leaving your home carrying your television, the castle doctrine would clear you of any liability if you chose to shoot and kill that person.

    In the Kingsland case, the homeowner told investigators he shot a man he thought was robbing his neighbor's house. The homeowner, who lives in the 4700 block of River Oaks Drive in Kingsland, told investigators he saw a black Honda Civic driving up and down his street and then saw the car back into his neighbor's carport.

    The neighbor grabbed his .45 pistol and walked over to investigate. When he confronted the men inside the car they drove off, and the man started shooting at the Civic.


    The homeowner hit Casey Rowe, 25, in the back of the neck. Rowe was sitting in the back seat behind the driver of the Civic. Looking at the car, two bullet holes can be seen in the side of the car where Rowe was sitting.

    The glass in the back car window was shattered by another bullet. Investigators found five shell casings lying in the grass by the fence.

    The men in the Civic drove to Rowe's girlfriend's house and gave the girlfriend's mother an account of what had happened. The other two men in the car told her they were looking for scrap metal and picked up an old air compressor that looked like junk right.

    "They got it in the car, and they heard a man yelling, and he fired a shot," said Cammie Kasper. "Then they were driving and the man was running after them shooting at ‘em."


    The district attorney is not certain if the"castle doctrine" would apply in the Kingsland case because the shooter seemed to have been protecting his neighbor's property, not his own. Even though the law is only a year old, it's been used in a number of high-profile cases.

    In Pasadena, a grand jury "no billed" a man who shot and killed two burglars breaking into his neighbor's house. The case was widely covered in the Houston media.

    Last October, a West Dallas man who lived at his scrap yard business shot and killed two burglars on two separate occasions in the span of less than a month. The men who were shot appeared to be trying to steal copper from the business.

    The 70-year-old man who shot the intruders was never charged, although a Dallas television reporter was eventually fired for aggressively questioning the man.

    As of Thursday, no charges have been filed in the Kingsland case. Rowe is on life support at Brackenridge Hospital in Austin. Doctors told his family if Rowe pulls through he will likely be paralyzed from the neck down.

    ======

    Sounds pretty questionable to me, I sure as hell wouldn't shoot in that situation. :dunno:
     
  2. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    Started shooting at the civic after they fled? Don't quite agree that :ugh:
     
  3. ElCidKid

    ElCidKid New Member

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    well they did take the air compressorand ran off, thats pretty sketchy.
     
  4. Ford4Life

    Ford4Life Guest

    I don't think I'd fire over an air compressor. As a training matter, it wasn't real smart of the guy to leave the house and confront a car load of people either. He would have been seriously fucked if all 3 had weapons.
     
  5. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    Poor thieves were just trying to make a living :wtc:
     
  6. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    I have no problems with thieves being shot, I think more of them should be, but firing off shots at a fleeing car in a suburban neighborhood isn't exactly the best idea.
     
  7. Ebtromba

    Ebtromba Active Member

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    in texas, so they'll give him a certificate of excellence in citizenry plus send super models to his place around the clock nonstop

    i miss that place
     
  8. vwpilot

    vwpilot New Member

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    Yeah, very questionable and things like this are what make it more difficult for other states to come online with the same laws.

    I wonder how much of that other case (I forget his name where the guy shot the thieves with his shot gun after calling 911) was in this shooters mind.

    "Hell, that guy got off for protecting his neighbors stuff, I can do that too."

    To me, these things open too many slippery slopes in terms of people looking for trouble. I'm all for being able to protect yourself, family and property when confronted by criminals, but when we start to allow people to go looking for trouble and be shooting at fleeing criminals over small property, I think it gets a bit dangerous and a little too "wild west" for my liking.

    What if this had been his neighbors friend that had lent the neighbor the air compressor and the neighbor told him he was welcome to come get it out of the carport? The lender sees a guy coming at him with a gun so he jumps in his car with his compressor and tries to drive off while being shot at by a "helpful" neighbor?

    The shooter couldnt have known that, but shooting at him is totally wrong. These situations open up too many variables to be safe. When there is a solid line of protecting yourself from immediate danger, that is one thing, but being allowed to go looking to protect something for the sake of protecting it gets a little iffy.
     
  9. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    I'll just ignore all the what-if's and wild west talk because you're in womd and should know better. Is that really your decision to make? Most people have traded a portion of their life working for the money they used to buy something. Your values may not allow you to justify shooting someone over $500, but is it wrong for someone else to be ok with that? Is it wrong for the guy who is struggling to make ends meet feel like he should shoot to prevent his work truck from being stolen or prevent his work tools from being stolen out of his truck? I don't see why I should get to decide that for someone else. Don't steal and you won't get shot.

    I can't speak to the safety of his actions. I've read that this place isn't populated in all areas and that its possible he had a safe shot. Who knows.
     
  10. amill94

    amill94 OT Supporter

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    I'm all for killing thieves, but this seems a bit questionable.
     
  11. RonJeremey

    RonJeremey OT Supporter

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    .
     
  12. PC Principle

    PC Principle New Member

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    Wirelessly posted via wap.offtopic.com (Motorola Q: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; Smartphone; 176x220))

    I know I would not of shot.
     
  13. Finest

    Finest OG #93

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    I would have shot at the gas tank. Then the car would catch on fire and all the thieves inside would have died in a fire. WIN!
     
  14. vwpilot

    vwpilot New Member

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    I didnt say that you shouldnt be able to protect your own stuff, I actually said I'm all for being able to protect your own family and possessions.

    What I dont like the idea of is people going out and looking for trouble when its someone elses possessions, as in this case.

    I gave a "what if" because its entirely logical something like that could happen when you're trying to, for lack of a better word (not exactly what I mean) meddle in someone elses business.

    These few recent cases have involved people going out and creating trouble where there isnt any and getting involved in something that has nothing to do with them. As a result there have been some questionable shootings.

    Am I sorry that these people have been shot, no because hindsight is 20/20. However, if this trend continues, the likelyhood of someone innocent getting hurt starts to increase dramatically.

    Again, I'm not against people owning and using guns to protect themselves. I just do not think its unreasonable to question people that seem to be looking for trouble and using their weapons offensively rather than in defense of themselves or their own property.
     
  15. Tycoon

    Tycoon New Member

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    Couldn't he just say he stores some things in his neighbors house :dunno:
     
  16. kellyclan

    kellyclan She only loves you when she's drunk.

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    Article doesn't give me the impression he had any knowledge of theft, only suspicous activity/prowling.

    Vague shit like this keeps happening, TX is gonna backtrack their castle doctrine, and the rest of the states will have a case example for not having castle doctrine.
     
  17. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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  18. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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    Don't ruin for us Texas... there are still states trying to pass Castle Doctrine laws. Like MN.
     
  19. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    Re: ruining stuff...shouldn't some guy be convicted of a crime before its considered ruined? I don't entirely understand I suppose. Is that like saying don't open carry because while its legal it'll freak people out and they won't support concealed carry?
     
  20. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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    Just saying, be careful. Going running after cars guns ablazin' isn't exactly being careful. Or responsible.
    It gives a bad image, something we don't need right now. And I'd like to have Castle Doctrine in MN... so don't fucking ruin it for me.
     
  21. pimpofthenation

    pimpofthenation OT Supporter

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    dot and dot

    Of course, none of are speaking with 100% of the events, but it sure seems like he saw somebody PROBABLY up to no good, startled them and they fled, and then just started blasting away like he saw in the movies.
     
  22. 4fifths

    4fifths God of Bartons

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    I can't believe people are still stupid enough to steal shit in Texas.
     
  23. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    http://www.statesman.com/blogs/cont...008/08/04/man_accused_of_shooting_at_all.html
    Looks like the investigation has taken a turn for the worse.
     
  24. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington nunc fortunatus sum

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    So the dumbass - off his property - shoots someone at night, in a car driving away, and he thought he saw someone reach for something that might be a weapon.

    Enjoy jail, dumb fuck.
     
  25. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    Its hard to say much without knowing the facts of the case but lets say he's an old guy who hasn't been trouble for his life and shoots some theives. Is society really going to benefit from spending money to prosecute and jail the guy? I never can get excited about my money being spent for no real purpose.
     

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