GUN Can't think of an ammo brand, help..

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by My Dixie Wrecked, Apr 26, 2005.

  1. My Dixie Wrecked

    My Dixie Wrecked STFU & get the ball!!! OT Supporter

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    Some brand of hollow point handgun ammo that leaves an extremely large exit hole. I think I found a link posted on here but can't find it. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
     
  2. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    you talking about that Extreme Shock stuff? The one with the pic of the green wax target with a huge hole?
     
  3. My Dixie Wrecked

    My Dixie Wrecked STFU & get the ball!!! OT Supporter

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    :bowdown:

    That'd be it. Thanks :bigthumb:
     
  4. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    Pure crap.
    The manufacturers have hyped it claiming all these wonderful abilities but independent testing at ballistics labs have shown that it's all B.S.
     
  5. htex1004

    htex1004 New Member

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    Came across some Corbon DPX i havn't seen before the other day I ment to look up.

    I just usually carry winchester's personal defence stuff or Golden Sabers.... sometimes some reloaded stuff with goldots in the end.
     
  6. Bigsnake

    Bigsnake OT Supporter

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    For 9mm how is the Federal Hydrashock? Anything you would consider better?
     
  7. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    I am carrying the new Corbon DPX now in the XD and 1911. Local shop got in some .40 and .45 and I was low on carry ammo. So far I have been impressed and that doesn't happen often with ammo. If you have a gun that has issues with wide mouthed HPs though, this stuff may give you fits.
     
  8. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    I use that in my 9's. Good stuff and very accurate.
     
  9. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    That's why I went with the DPX. Barnes X bullet and high velocity.

    40 S&W --140 DPX --1250fps/486ftlbs
    45Auto +P 185 DPX -- 1075fps/475ftlbs

    and probably switch to these when I run out of HydraShoks.

    9mm+P -- 115grDPX -- 1275fps/415ftlbs
     
  10. My Dixie Wrecked

    My Dixie Wrecked STFU & get the ball!!! OT Supporter

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    BTW, I carry HydraShocks in my 40 and Gold Dots in my 380. I just wanted to show my friend the site.
     
  11. A96HondaAccordCoupeEX

    A96HondaAccordCoupeEX Silver Member

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    no +P no care :hsugh:
     
  12. Painkiller

    Painkiller The Synarchy of Molten Bones

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    Use gold dots and you shouldn't be worried.
     
  13. htex1004

    htex1004 New Member

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    PS if you like gold dot stuff georgia arms loads +P in alot of diffrent grains and some +P+

    G9MMF 115gr Hollow Point +P $12.50 $24.50 $235.00 399 1250
    G9MMH 124gr Hollow Point +P $12.50 $24.50 $235.00 396 1200
    G9MMI 147gr Hollow Point +P $13.00 $25.50 $245.00 359 1050
    GMM+P+ 115gr Hollow Point +P+ $14.75 $29.00 $280.00 431 1300

    40 SMITH & WESSON GOLD DOT
    G40B 155gr Hollow Point +P $13.75 $27.00 $260.00 495 1200
    G40F 165gr Hollow Point +P $13.75 $27.00 $260.00 443 1100
    G40C 180gr Hollow Point +P $13.75 $27.00 $260.00 440 1050
    G40+P+ 155gr Hollow Point +P+ $16.00 $31.50 $305.00 581 1300

    45 ACP GOLD DOT
    G45AE 185gr Hollow Point +P $13.75 $27.00 $260.00 497 1100
    G45AF 230gr Hollow Point +P $13.75 $27.00 $260.00 369 850
     
  14. Fucker

    Fucker out of the fast lane, bitches

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    Hydroshock, Black Talon = XST good stuff.
     
  15. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    Okay, here are the three rounds that I consider good enough to carry in 9mm. This is based on multiple terminal ballistics tests, by the FBI, ammolab, and others.

    Speer Gold Dot HP 124 gr. +P. Not 115 gr. +P+, not 147 gr. regular. ONLY 124 gr. +P.
    Winchester Ranger SXT 147 gr. (RA9T)
    Winchester Ranger SXT 127 gr. +P+

    I carry the RA9T. It is absolutely the best performer based on my personal research of terminal ballistic performance. I urge people who carry Hydrashoks to find something newer. Hydrashoks are 1st generation hollowpoints. While, yes, they still make holes, so do better performing rounds, and the better, newer rounds will make larger, deeper holes more reliably. Hydrashoks separate from the jacket far too easily, and have a much more irregular expansion than other rounds on the market. They're far from the worst, but they're just as far from the best. I'd pick them over FMJ's in 9mm. But if you're spending money on carry ammo, and you can shoot well, why not take advantage of that by carrying a higher quality ammo? Golden Sabers used to have issues with their jackets shedding immediately upon contact with the target, but I think they've started bonding the jackets to eliminate that at this point. If you carry them, make sure. If the jackets aren't bonded, your round sucks much ass. If the jacket peels off, you have a lead blob that goes nowhere and does nothing for you.

    What you want is a minimum of 12 inches of penetration through clothing. This is to ensure that a major organ or vascular structure is "interrupted" by your round. You have to take into account that people don't always face right at you with their hands at their sides while they're threatening your life. You want to be able to penetrate into the torso if you hit the target in the side. Or, if he has his hands up (which most attackers probably will), you want it to be able to go through his hands/arms and still penetrate adequately into his torso as possible. If he's wearing any clothes at all, this will usually make HP's penetrate further, because the clothing slightly fills an HP's cavity and prevents expansion for just a fraction of a second longer. The downside is that too much clothing can slow the round down to where it doesn't open reliably. You have to evaluate the rounds yourself. Most reliable terminal ballistics centers shoot through denim in front of the gelatin to simulate clothing. The really good ones test the rounds through at least 4 layers of WET denim.
     
  16. GlocksRock

    GlocksRock Glock > You

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    I use Gold Dots, and Hydra Shok in my 9's.
     
  17. Platinum_Thunder

    Platinum_Thunder Reliability for life and liberty

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    Corbon DPX are wicked I hear
     
  18. htex1004

    htex1004 New Member

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    Anyone know about Hornady TAP ammo yet?
     
  19. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    It's all basically preference. As long as you stick to a name brand that has had years of testing and actual on the street/battlefield use, you are good to go. The biggest issue isn't if the bullet goes 12" or 11" into a block of gelatin, it's can you hit center mass repeatedly with the ammo you use. A 1-stop wonderbullet won't do shit if it misses the target.
     
  20. sextech

    sextech New Member

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    thats why i carry two magsafes, fmj and alternate every other one.that way if they are in my house with the first two it won't overpenertrate and if they are under some hard cover the fmj will get in and get the job done.
     
  21. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    But buying good ammo does not decrease your accuracy. If you are accurate already, why not buy good ammo? You're acting like good ammo is a downside, and it makes you miss. Yes, you need to practice, but yes, if you practice, why not take advantage of it with a more effective round?
     
  22. Bigsnake

    Bigsnake OT Supporter

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    He's saying if you can't hit shit, don't worry about what ammo you have. You need practice.

    Buying good ammo for carry is alright but you also need to be going out and practicing so you know what you can hit...
     
  23. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    Bingo. Good ammo can make the difference between a 4" group and a 3" group. It can make a difference between getting 12" of penetration and 13" but if you can't hit your target center of mass repeatedly then it doesn't matter what brand you have. If there was one brand that was better than all other brands, then all law enforcement agencies would be using that one brand, but in the real world, there isn't. Some depts. issue HydraShoks, some issue Rangers, some issue Gold Dots, some issue CorBon, some are now issuing the new Federal EFMJ and the new HydraShok2.

    When it comes down to the major brands (and even calibers) there are only 2 real factors that make the difference. Does the ammunition you use function 100% in your weapon, and can you put your shots into your target consistantly enough to either shut down their central nervous system or cause enough blood loss.

    Federal's EFMJ is a good idea but it needs more work to make it function consistantly. If they can do that, they MAY (and I emphasize may) have something that other manufacturers will jump on. It expands by impact without a cavity that can be plugged. So far though Detroit PD is demonstrating that it's not consistant.

    Personally I use whatever HP is sitting on the shelves when I go shopping. Right now I am testing out the Corbon DPX ammo in my .40 and .45 to see if it's going to function 100% and will also try it out in my .380 and 9mm. If it works out, then I will have no worries about grabbing a box of that to use if it's available when I need to buy ammo. If it doesn't, then I will avoid it as a carry round.
     
  24. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    Actually different brands CAN decrease your accuracy, but if you are an experienced shooter, it should be nominal. It's not the brand per sae and it's not you, it's how each brand works with your weapon. Some guns have issues with different bullet designs. My duty 1911 had fits with Speer Gold Dots and would open groups up to about 4" whereas HydraShoks would keep a nice 1.5" group from rest. It may have been the barrel, may have been feeding, may have been the harmonics in the barrel. You just have to test and then practice to find what works and what doesn't.

    As taking advantage of a "more effective round", I haven't seen one that is more effective than another (name brand HPs) Yes ballistics labs will say one is better than another when shooting into gel blocks, but you can find different labs giving different results even then.(Hence why there is no 1 brand that is issued by all Police Depts.) Real world shootings results pretty much have shown that there is no real edge.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2005
  25. Info courtesy of DocGKR:

    The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:

    9 mm:
    Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
    Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
    Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP (53617)
    Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
    Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
    Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
    Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
    Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
    Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
    Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP (53619)
    Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)

    .40 S&W:
    Barnes XPB 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
    Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP (53961)
    Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
    Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
    Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
    Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
    Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
    Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
    Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP (53966)
    Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)

    .45 ACP:
    Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
    Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
    Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
    Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP (23966)
    Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
    Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)

    Notes:
    -- Obviously, clone loads using the same bullet at the same velocity work equally well (ie. Black Hills ammo using Gold Dot bullets, etc…)

    ----------------------------------------

    Keeping in mind that handguns generally offer poor incapacitation potential, bullets with effective terminal performance are available in all of the most commonly used duty pistol calibers--pick the one that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, and best suits you likely engagement scenarios. Whatever you choose, make sure you fire at least 500 and preferrably 1000 failure free shots through your pistol prior to using it for duty. If your pistol cannot fire at least 1000 consecutive shots without a malfunction, something is wrong and it is not suitable for duty/self-defense use.

    ------------------------------------------

    The keys are:

    -- Cultivate a warrior mindset
    -- Invest in competent, thorough initial training and then maintain skills with regular ongoing practice
    -- Acquire a reliable and durable weapon system
    -- Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance.
     

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