GUN Can the AR be improved?

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by ShackleMeNot, Dec 2, 2005.

  1. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    Sully at Defensive Edge has one of the better AR designs being made currently.

    http://www.slr15.com/

    It may look like most other AR's on the market but this is one very thoughful design.
     
  2. Alphaeus

    Alphaeus New Member

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    Another improvement would be to get rid of that horrific poopy brown color
     
  3. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    I wouldn't buy one, with their prices can pretty much build your own, improve the things you want. I dont like the stock, grip choices, dont care about magwell grip. Ide prefer flattop upper flip up sights.... All about personal taste I guess :dunno:
     
  4. Y2kAccord

    Y2kAccord Everything happens for reasons I just dont know

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    I am just learning AR's but I like mine better than that
     
  5. kellyclan

    kellyclan She only loves you when she's drunk.

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    What gas system does it use? Looks mostly just accessory preference, well thought out though. I like the ambi features they offer.
     
  6. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    looks like regular AR gas system :dunno:
    I want a H&K piston upper
     
  7. Bigsnake

    Bigsnake OT Supporter

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    I want the Entry one :o

    If you had the paperwork done and tax stamp for an SBR, then would they sell you one of the LEO only ones? (assuming it would be semi-auto too)

    Edit: Also, what are considered the "must have" option for a good AR? I see all kinds of crap like vertical foregrips, lasers, lights, etc. Most of it I don't like but I'm not sure what's actually usefull on a carbine.
     
  8. Alphaeus

    Alphaeus New Member

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    500yds? :eek3:
     
  9. Dsking85

    Dsking85 New Member

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    i shoot matches with my AR out to 600 yards. have tried 1,000. could hit the target, but obviously didn't score well.
     
  10. Bigsnake

    Bigsnake OT Supporter

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    W/ the standard issue irons?

    And I was more talking along the lines of, for lack of a better word, a "tactical" AR-15.

    I see all the people building guns w/ a million gadgets on them and then saw a thread about someone going to a Carbine class and how the instructors all used really simple rifles. What all is accepted to have on your AR-15 before it's considered riceing it out... If I build one, then I wouldn't mind getting a light on it and maybe an aimpoint too.
     
  11. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    Surefire is fine, aimpoint/acog/tacpoint/etc fine, lasers = rice personally find forward grips to be useless. some sort of optics and light is pretty much as far as i go with tactical addons, of course various stocks and stuff are acceptable.
    but when you have 3 lights 2 lasers, aimpoint, acog all on one rifle :greddy:
     
  12. 7

    7 First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire.

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    You're comparing two rifles you've never handled :cool:
     
  13. Y2kAccord

    Y2kAccord Everything happens for reasons I just dont know

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    you know what guns I have and have not handled? :greddy:
     
  14. Bigsnake

    Bigsnake OT Supporter

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    I'm thinking more along the lines of after I get my CCW, which I'm starting to work on right now, starting to get the parts for an AR-15 and filing for an SBR.
     
  15. Dsking85

    Dsking85 New Member

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    i shoot in service rifle class, iron sights, out to 600.
     
  16. Bigsnake

    Bigsnake OT Supporter

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    Don't think the AR I build will shoot that far too well... But I can't wait to get my M1 fixed so I can get out to the 600 yard range w/ it :wiggle:
     
  17. 7

    7 First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire.

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    Considering you posted about the RRA TACTICAL ENTRY that you ordered off the interweb in every other thread on the forum I think it's safe to say that you havent handled it and I doubt you've handled the SLR15 since you probably would have mentioned it so I think it can be said that you havent handled either rifle. These are just educated guesses of course.
     
  18. Y2kAccord

    Y2kAccord Everything happens for reasons I just dont know

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    I have checked out and handled a RRA rifle just like I am buying and have shot them before and checked out other variations of the rifle.

    I have never held a SLR15.. so go troll somewhere else..
     
  19. 7

    7 First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire.

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    I wasnt trolling, I just dont see how you can compare a rifle you have (on the way or whatever) to something you've never touched. :hsugh:
     
  20. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    The people who think this rifle is over priced probably won't shoot it enough to appreciate it and will most likely never have to rely on it to function any where other than the square shooting range.

    Sully has taken special features and upgrades and combined them into a very well thought out package. If you add up all the standard features of the SLR15 and you add to it the two free days of training (both armorer and tactical) it's a reasonable deal.

    If you still think it's too expensive you can always build your own franken gun or buy an Olympic Plinker. Most people here won't know the difference.

    What should a fighting rifle have on it?
    A defense rifle should have a white light and a tac sling. I also recommend a quality optic (Aimpoint or Eotech).

    You should be able to buy the SBR if you are willing to get the stamp.
     
  21. kellyclan

    kellyclan She only loves you when she's drunk.

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    I didn't see that part, that actually makes it a GREAT deal. :cool:
     
  22. Bigsnake

    Bigsnake OT Supporter

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    That's awesome :hsd:
     
  23. Ghostrider4450

    Ghostrider4450 New Member

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    Out of my mind, brb never.
    I like the idea of training. It gives the rifle more purpose and allows the operator to understand it better. Price isnt bad for said training and extra 'features'.
     
  24. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    I, too, missed the free training deal.

    What I don't care for on their rifle is the carry handle and the mag-well griptape. To me, if you plan on using optics, ever, a permanent carry handle blows the whole deal. They make a flat-top upper. That should be standard. I love the extended sight radius, but I wonder how well the gas system will function with the barrel cut so short after the gas port. I'm not saying it won't work, I have just had zero experience with it to know if it will or will not. I use an L-grab when coming back from a reload, until I get a chance to move my weak hand forward to the vertical foregrip, however, I hate griptape. I have never found an instance where having my hands rubbed raw by griptape has been an advantage. Use gloves, or put a rubber pad there instead, but I hate griptape on firearms. I also don't like A1 sights, because I want to be able to quickly adjust elevation for a shot past 225 yards (I use a 50-yard zero, so 50 and 225 are on the same setting, and everything between them is only a touch high or low). A 300 yard shot means you're using holdover, which is basically guessing. Kentucky windage isn't my thing. A2 sights for the win. One more thing I just thought of is the 1/9 twist rate. They offer 14.5" and 16" barrel configurations. In order to keep the effective range of the rifle up, you would need to use heavier bullets, like 68, 75, 77, etc. You can squeeze a 68 gr. bullet out of a 1/9 barrel and do just fine. But now you're capped at 68 gr. bullets. Since not too many people are going to use this rifle for varmint hunting, there's no need for the 1/9 barrel to stabilize lighter weight bullets, like 44 gr. and such. A 1/7 will work perfectly fine for 55 gr. ammo, all the way up. There is NO reason why 1/7 barrels should not be used, standard.

    They should use a heavier barrel on the 11.5" model. There's a chance that it might be used in an auto capacity in LE or by civilians, and the heavier barrel would really increase barrel life and cooling. Also, since it's so short, you would be okay if the barrel got just a tad heavier, since the weight is in on your hands so much, instead of way out in front of you. Much more manageable. They REALLY, REALLY need to use 1/7 twist rates on the 11.5" barrels, but they don't advertise that they use anything but 1/9 barrels. Silly. I also don't like the ergogrip. If it's an aftermarket grip, give people an option. I prefer either the standard A2 grip or the Magpul MIAD. Some guys really love that ergogrip, but I fucking hate it. I can't use an A1 or the TD grip either. Not everyone has a need for a railed forend, but they use one of the least secure, heaviest, cheapest FF rails available: YHM. It's hard to keep them tight, they're heavy as balls, and they should give you options on that as well. If you don't use a rail to mount a light, find a way to do so. Use the SF forends or something, because you need a light on a tactical rifle, and it needs to be easy to manipulate on and off.

    Things I really like about it, that should be standard on all rifles:

    -Same-plane aperture. I flip apertures a bit, and HATE the elevation differences in dual-plane apertures. It's just a retarded thing that should've never happened on the rear sight to begin with. You should be using both apertures, not just for daylight and low-light, but for up-close shooting, inside 50 yards. The large aperture can be very accurate inside that range if you actually practice with it.

    -Upgraded internals. There are three things that people do to their AR's now that make them almost 100% reliable with regular (and often irregular) maintainence: M4 feedramps; Extra power extractor springs; Green/Orange/Magpul followers on their magazines. That, and using quality parts in general, will improve the function of the AR manyfold. Those things should be standard on all AR's. I like that they added the insert for the extractor spring, and the quad ring. I don't know anything about how well their gas ring performs, but it's certainly a good idea if it works. I like the IDEA of chromed internals, for cleaning. However, I do not have any background in metallurgy. They say that the extractor itself is chrome, not chromed. If it is, in fact, harder, I would have to make sure that it's not more brittle. I've seen what a broken extractor does, and milspec extractors break already. It wouldn't help to make them harder, but more brittle.

    -Flat-top upper. For reasons mentioned above. Add a carry handle if you want to, but these days, most people are using optics and a BUIS. I agree with Shay's assertion that a good tactical rifle should eventually get an optic after you master your irons. I myself have not yet mastered my irons enough to get an optic, and I can't afford it yet, but I got a flat-top in preparation, and use an LMT BUIS. I also like their ambidextrous charging handle milling. That's a cool feature. I'm ambidextrous, but I use my rifle righty due to ease of function. It's good to see manufacturers trying to help out the southpaws of the world.

    -Training. This is possibly the most important feature of the whole purchase. You can USE any functioning rifle in a pinch, but if you don't have the skills or the mindset, your use of such rifle will be cut short by someone who does. If you took the money that people spend on their guns, and put it toward actually learning to USE their guns, those people would be so much better off, even if their firearms weren't the most top of the line, coolest, newest thing out there.

    I will say that there's always room for improvement on a weapons system, but there's far MORE room for improvement on the weapons operator. That they include instruction in the price of the rifle is an awesome thing. It means that they recognize this fact. It also means that they're trying to get you to come to MORE of their classes, but that's beside the point. You benefit anyways.
     

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