Can I make strength gains on maintenance calories?

Discussion in 'Fitness & Nutrition' started by Kanervac, Mar 25, 2006.

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  1. Kanervac

    Kanervac New Member

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    Last wrestling season, I found that I was much weaker in comparison to people of similar bodyfat, weight, and height. After season, I started a 5x5 similar to Christophers', and ate like crazy. I've gained some strength, and some weight, but I feel like my weightgain is disproportional to my strength gain. I'm 5'5".
    Stats at the end of season:
    Weight: 127
    Bodyfat: 10% at beginning of season, stayed the same, maybe raised a little.
    Bench: 125lbsx10 or so, never checked 5 rep max
    Squat: 235 to slightly above parallel
    Deadlifts: 200x5

    Stats now:
    Weight: 142
    Bodyfat: More or less the same.
    Bench: 145x3-4
    Squat: 205x5 ATG
    Deads: 225x5 (PR Yesterday :cool:)

    I just feel that my weight gain to strength gain ratio is too low. I feel that what I've gained is mostly lbm, not much water weight considering I always weigh myself at the same time/situation.

    Obviously I want the best strength per weight ratio possible, since moving up a weight class is extremely difficult.

    So, in short, my question is: will I make strength gains at maintenance (2500 kcalories per day)? I searched all over but found nothing except people rabidly endorsing bodyweight exercises :ugh:.

    Cliffsnotes:
    Can I make strength gains at maintenace caloric intake, assuming I get enough protein/efa's? Also, can I cut down on "excess muscle" I've gained in this bulking process, but retain strength?
     
  2. Perkwunos

    Perkwunos Dog Bones OT Supporter

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    yes, strength gains are not nessisarilly linked to muscle growth.
    What excess muscle do you have, It seems like you could eb leaner.
     
  3. Kanervac

    Kanervac New Member

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    Muscle on my legs, maybe some extra fat sitting around; I carry weight well. I can't say for sure though.

    I hear people complaining about intense cardio negating muscle gains; will they affect my strength gains? Also, can I stay on a 5x5?

    EDIT: Also, if I cut, can my lifts go up? All in all, I don't care how I look, only how I perform.
    Thanks.
     
  4. Perkwunos

    Perkwunos Dog Bones OT Supporter

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    PM sgt. ownage, he is a wrestler, and would be better quallified to help you.

    I highly doubt you would gain any strength dieting, you are not verry large, and are fairly lean, but it could eb possible.
     
  5. DTR rex

    DTR rex New Member

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    I have no problem gaining strength or size on/at maintenence. However, it is when I go well under maintenence that I seem to not be able to build more muscle or strength.
     
  6. nathanbx

    nathanbx New Member

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    if you're gaining size, you're not at maintenance
     
  7. Elfling

    Elfling New Member

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    Well..duh? :dunno:
     
  8. hootpie

    hootpie New Member

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    I've been on maintenance calories for 6 months now and I've made huge gains in strength and size...then again, I had very little muscle and a lot of fat to begin with.
     
  9. Elfling

    Elfling New Member

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    Noob gains ftw :run:
     
  10. Perkwunos

    Perkwunos Dog Bones OT Supporter

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    not so much as his squats suck right now...
    Couldn't be that maintanence part could it...:hsugh:
     
  11. ccrooks

    ccrooks New Member

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    i am... actually, i think i'm a little below maintenance
     
  12. Kozzy McKoz

    Kozzy McKoz OT Supporter

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    but it is possible to make gains with your CNS right?
     
  13. Perkwunos

    Perkwunos Dog Bones OT Supporter

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    yes, you do nto need to add mass to gain strength obviously
     
  14. Kanervac

    Kanervac New Member

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    So in terms of 'excess' muscle, i.e. muscle that I have that's not needed to meet my strength goals, do you think I could cut that too, since muscle is so much more dense than fat? I'll PM Sgt. Ownage too, thanks. I'm just frustrated by the weight gain and relatively low lifts.
     
  15. Sand Hanitizer

    Sand Hanitizer Active Member

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    intentionally losing muscle is the worst thing you would ever want to do
     
  16. mizunin

    mizunin New Member

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    I'm in the same situation as the OP, except that I'm at 5'3" ~112 lbs and haven't started lifting. Given that I'm a newbie to lifting, if I start, would I see strength gains with no increase in mass, and how would it affect my endurance?

    Also, suggestions as to what lifts to do and general wrestler-needing-to-gain-strength-while-gaining-little-mass things to do would be appreciated.
     
  17. therealdeal

    therealdeal New Member

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    You should certainly be able to get quite a bit stronger than you are right now at that weight.
     
  18. DTR rex

    DTR rex New Member

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    I don't know then man.

    Since cutting I have lost body fat and weight (which obviously leads to the assumption that I am at or below maintenence) and yet I not only have been making visual gains in size, but also my measurements seems to increase. The visual aspect could be explained by a loss of b/f% which would increase vascularity and muscle definition, which generally gives the illusion people are "bigger". However, as I said, my measurements have gone up. Perhaps other variables like the specific pump I had that day might be playing a roll, but I am indeed gaining size and losing b/f at the same time.
     
  19. hootpie

    hootpie New Member

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    :werd:

    Forgot to mention that :)
     
  20. Perkwunos

    Perkwunos Dog Bones OT Supporter

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    so you are ussing aas?
     
  21. Perkwunos

    Perkwunos Dog Bones OT Supporter

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    I am not an expert or even knoledgeable on what wrestlers need, but athletes in general seem to need explosive strength, endurance, mobility, and agility.

    this would be a good program to get on, also reading up on literature at places like elitefts.com and some of the stuff a t-nation.com would help also find out what glenpendlay does, he is one fo the best strength and conditioning coaches.

    http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Periodized_5x5.htm

    The lifts to be doing would be
    Deadlift, squat, bench, oly lifts, plyometrics, and mobility work.
     
  22. Kotu

    Kotu OT Supporter

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    since we're talking about maintenance... when on maintenance, do you need as much protein as you do when bulking or cutting?
     
  23. Perkwunos

    Perkwunos Dog Bones OT Supporter

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    you should pretty much always go by 1-1.5g
     
  24. Elfling

    Elfling New Member

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    Yep.
     
  25. Kotu

    Kotu OT Supporter

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    Alright. thanks, elfling and fatdude.
     
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