FRK Can a woman in a BDSM video be 'raped'?

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by Stilgar1973, Jul 21, 2007.

  1. Stilgar1973

    Stilgar1973 New Member

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    I know you guys are gonna want to tear me apart. Please don't.

    I have personal issues for not hanging in this sub-forum. Most of them involve me giving up my fetish because my wife isn't into it.
    The things we do for love.
    Luckily for me she knows I look at porn and she doesn't get pissy about it. She pretty much allows me to have it.

    Okay. My question comes from the 'Max Harcore' thread in the Ontopic section.

    The thread started with people crying that the government is coming after him for what he does. That may be true. I don't support that.

    But then someone posted a thing about an actress in one of his videos that makes the case for him raping her.

    Now THAT grabbed my attention. It is my belief that the BDSM scene DOES walk a thin line between 'rape' and 'not rape'. But if the scene is played by the rules, negotiation and safe words and such, then (assuming everyone follows the rules) rape is impossible.

    Of course once someone violates those words then rape can happen. And if someone on a power trip takes advantage of a newbie by not introducing the newbie to these things then rape is very possible, maybe even likely.

    I think I am posting this here because I am somewhat aghast. That people can make the argument that this womans participation in the video precludes her from being raped. That just kind of pisses me off.

    So what do you people think?

    You on my side?

    Or am I nuts?
     
  2. FallNAngel

    FallNAngel ...destroyer of threads...

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    Participation in a video or not has nothing to do with rape. That's like saying because a woman consented to sex, she can't be raped... she can if she changes her mind and says no, but the other person proceeds anyway.
     
  3. DvBoard

    DvBoard New Member

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    Depends on the place (legally). If she changes her mind after the act has started then it is NOT rape in some cases, yet in others if she's midway in the act and changes her mind the guy is fucked.

    Personally if she consented, then it is not rape unless the act continues past a reasonable time from when she makes it known to the other party that she is no longer willing.

    It's a fine line that has to be judged depending upon the situation.

     
  4. shanker

    shanker unemployed

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    in that case, im a rapist, my wife has told me no before, but once I got going all I heard was yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
     
  5. HouseLing

    HouseLing When masturbations lost its fun you'r fucking lazy

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    link to thread in main forum?

    And my opinion pretty much coincides with the other posts here. There can be rape in a BDSM movie if it moves beyond what was discussed beforehand, or the girl changes her mind, or a safesord was ignored. You stil have consent :dunno:
     
  6. FallNAngel

    FallNAngel ...destroyer of threads...

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    Her changing her mind at the end doesn't take away from the fact that you continued after she said no.
     
  7. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle *lube'n up the shock paddles*

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    I don't think this applies to only BDSM...there are a few porn clips on youporn that I have had to close and completely stop my fun because of a woman being taken advantage of and what could be (At least in my state N.Y) classified as rape. At least with this being video tape there is visual evidence and she can point out in the tape where she feels things crossed the line. :dunno:
     
  8. demosnat

    demosnat New Member

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    No=stop.
    Safeword=no
    safeword=stop.

    If she asked him to stop, and he didn't she was raped.
     
  9. Raybanman

    Raybanman New Member

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    What she said.
     
  10. Dominion

    Dominion I believe you have my stapler.

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    No and Stop can't be used as good safewords. In some instances these words are using in consensual activities to give the illusion of rape or unwillingness.

    Which is why most people I know of use off the wall stop words. My wife and I use balloon. When one of says balloon (have yet to use it, which is a good sign :p) then we know immediatly what the other one wants. I don't pretend to know how a contract for a porn shoot, but I would imagine it would contain a list of things the girl has consented to and an opt out clause, especially in the world of BDSM a safe word. Unfortunatly if they are filming and the girl says the word, they can edit it out, but more than likely the film would be destroyed and no evidence of her ever being unwilling would show. Especially if she entered into a contract stating what she would do.

    I'm sure there are ways around it, state laws and such. But the words No and stop can't be used as a safeword.
     
  11. demosnat

    demosnat New Member

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    of course not, thats why I used the transitive property ;)
     
  12. HouseLing

    HouseLing When masturbations lost its fun you'r fucking lazy

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    it was still confuseong, especially since I don't remember what that is.. :o
     
  13. Phantom Empress

    Phantom Empress mmmmmm tasty!!!

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    ah, sweet delicious mathematics.
     
  14. Raybanman

    Raybanman New Member

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  15. demosnat

    demosnat New Member

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    Do they make you as hot as they make me?
     
  16. Dominion

    Dominion I believe you have my stapler.

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    A whats it what?
     
  17. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    Consent to sex can be withdrawn at anytime. BDSM or porn being filmed at the same time is irrelevant. If you're being forced to have sex against your will, you're being raped.

    The bondage and sex thing is considered to be somewhat dangerous ground in the US. People have always been afraid of doing it for what prosecution might come their way. To my knowledge kink.com was one of the first companies to really start doing it and proudly putting their name on it. You will notice though also that most of their movies have a nice little interview with the girl before and after the scene where she talks about enjoying bdsm, what she's getting into, if she had fun, will she do it again, etc. I believe thats as much to show that it was consensual sex as anything.
     
  18. lauren

    lauren Active Member

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    of course...but i have a really hard time empathizing.
     
  19. dawgboye

    dawgboye I'm a businessman who's commodity happens to be co

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    This is a tough subject because it is very different for people of different sexes.

    Once the threshold of consent has been crossed, it is VERY iffy territory from then on. It isn't quite fair that a woman can change her mind and apply that change of mind retroactively (happens all the time). This has ruined many a life.

    I hate rapists, but the word gets thrown around so much and is used as leverage and as a tool for revenge.

    I think, in the particular case of the Max Hardcore videos, this is the case. Someone consented, participated, then regretted it later and that is when she decided to call it rape. Max Hardcore is very, very rough sex. I can't imagine someone agreeing to be in a Max Hardcore video without at least finding out what they are getting in to and watching previously made videos. So the concept that someone is now going to allege rape is a tad on the ludicrous side to me unless there were verifiable extenuating circumstances. Considering the hurdles American porn makers have to go through before they can hire any talent, I highly doubt anything extenuating could have happened.
     
  20. dawgboye

    dawgboye I'm a businessman who's commodity happens to be co

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    I wonder something, on the converse. These girls enter in to a contract. This contract spells out exactly what will be done, etc. If they, at any time decide to opt out, would that be breach of contract and would it be legally actionable (e.g.; the producer going after the contracted talent for losses such as costs of production, lost revenue, etc)
     
  21. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    If you could then sue for breach of contract (and I'm not sure how successful that would be on multiple levels) it still wouldn't turn a rape into anything else. With the image problem and legal problem the porn industry has, I don't think thats something they would do anyway. You have a hard enough time selling your products without soccer moms everywhere hearing you're suing the poor young girl that you coerced to sign a contract saying you could make her vomit with your cock as 20/20 will report. I think the far more likely outcome is that word travels and the problem actor will find themselves unable to get work again. And thats just vanilla porn, bring in bdsm and I just dont see them wanting to cause an uproar over something that might cost them their business. And then of course you're going to have talent not wanting to work for you because you're sue happy...

    Such as? Maybe you know something I don't, but I there are both good and bad people in porn and I don't think its all difficult of a business to get into. At the end of the day I don't have blind faith that someone in an industry that promotes and employs terribly unsafe sex practices known to cause great harm to its workers and has historically included ties to organized crime to be on the up and up at all times and not try to take advantage of or bully the actressess.

    I'd also like to point out that you're presenting the actress in the Max Hardcore film in a very biased light and seem to be skeptical of her claims. I find it hard to go along with this view since the photographer present was the one to stop the shoot. To me it adds credibility to the idea that something was not right about the shoot.

    I'd like to also note that there is a large difference between withdrawing consent during the act (saying that things need to stop now) and trying to call what was consented it as it happened rape retroactively.
     
  22. dawgboye

    dawgboye I'm a businessman who's commodity happens to be co

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    Porn is a very difficult business to get in to. There are tons of legal issues to deal with. To make porn your business, you can't just start fuckin' on camera and sell it. There are legal declarations that must be made on the federal level alone not to mention state and local (such as registering as a SOB, etc).

    It is just going to be a very sticky, complicated legal mess, regardless of who is right.
     
  23. gorilla

    gorilla New Member

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    Most BDSM vids have an interview with the actress before and after the video. They go into what she likes, and what she can expect to have done to her. This way there is no doubt as to what is going to happen.

    "Stop" and "No" can't be safe words in the BDSM world. But in regular sex/porn, it can.
     
  24. Sandoz

    Sandoz New Member

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    DOT
     
  25. Zeff

    Zeff OT Supporter

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    yeah I thought that with these vids everyone know's what's up and is ok with it.
     

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