can a speaker/sub blow an amp?

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by michelin man, Aug 5, 2007.

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  1. michelin man

    michelin man IDB Construction

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    i've managed to fry two jl 500/1 amps in the past couple of months.

    is it possible my sub is causing this?
     
  2. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    if you're running it at an impediance below what the amp is rated for, it could damage the amp.
     
  3. veonake

    veonake OnT poster, OT lurker

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    Yes, and do you have enough air circulation and have it mounted properly?
     
  4. michelin man

    michelin man IDB Construction

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    yes, under the rear seat in my tahoe. i'd say there is plenty of air moving around it.

    good ground and power.
     
  5. rebs

    rebs shares AIDS OT Supporter

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    your JL amps make the same power 1-4 ohm, so thats not it. A speaker issue (like over excursion) would put the amp into protect, shouldnt DAMAGE the amplifier.
     
  6. GammaRadiation

    GammaRadiation Active Member

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    Over excursion wont damage an amp or put it into protect.

    JL's get mighty hot (as they are mighty inefficent), how much room is there between the top of the amp and the bottom of the seat and how much of a gap betwen the bottom of the seat and the floor for air to move.
     
  7. rebs

    rebs shares AIDS OT Supporter

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    you're wrong. ;)
     
  8. GammaRadiation

    GammaRadiation Active Member

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    No I'm not. ;)
     
  9. rebs

    rebs shares AIDS OT Supporter

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    prove it kid.
    since ive seen it..many times:hsugh:
     
  10. michelin man

    michelin man IDB Construction

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    three~four inches of room above the amp
     
  11. GammaRadiation

    GammaRadiation Active Member

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    :rolleyes:

    How WOULD it put the amp into protect, kid.

    The coil wires are insulated with epoxy so it cant short out. Even if it could short out the coil would have to come in contact with the the gap and the bottom plate at the same time which is almost impossible in any decent motor design.

    The ONLY way excursion can put an amp into protect is if you are exceeding the thermal limits of the driver as well and the speakers is out the door anyway.

    Here is an RE MT being pushed to its mechanical limits for close to two minutes.
    http://realmofexcursion.com/videos/REAudio/mt12.3.wmv

    I personally have driven subs to their mehcanical limits under load for 30second bassrace runs with a final load lower than the amp's rated minimum impeadance and never had a problem.
     
  12. GammaRadiation

    GammaRadiation Active Member

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    Maybe try building an amp rack with a fan to flow extra air over it. 500/1's are only about 50% efficient so your head sink is having to release ~500w of heat if you are pushing the amp to it's limit.
     
  13. rebs

    rebs shares AIDS OT Supporter

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    You dont need an amp rack. Every shop on earth uses that location, it has nothing to do with your issue.

    CBFryman, you basicaly just said that it CAN happen. Thanks.
     
  14. twistid

    twistid Banged By Super Models Moderator

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    could it possibly be, just a bad ground??? that's about 25%(with the other 25% being horribly ghetto equipment, and 50% being abuse.) of what i find the cause, of DIYer's with fried amps.
     
  15. lemans23

    lemans23 PV - The Vision of Sound

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    :ugh: How would overexcursion even begin to hurt an amplifier? The only way this would happen would be if you're running the speaker at a lower impedance than the amplifier can handle, which causes it to strain, and as a side effect you might get mechanical failure of the driver, but that's completely unrelated to the amplifier being harmed by what the speaker is doing. A speaker is a passive device. It requires something to function, and although it can dictate how that something does function, once it's hooked up, it can't cause anything to happen. Chances are, if the woofer is over working, then the amp is over working (assuming you have proper resistance). Not the other way around.
     
  16. GammaRadiation

    GammaRadiation Active Member

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    Where did I say that it can happen if it werent for a faulty driver?

    You said that simply over excursion can harm the amp...it cant. It will harm the driver, not the amp. The only instance that it can is if the coil's thermal limits are exceeded and this causes a short in the coil. That isnt from over excursion, that is from exceeding the thermal limits. There is a BIG differece. You can exceed the thermal limits of the driver with any ammount of movement.

    As far as the amp rack, if he only has a few inches above the amp it can do nothing but help. If you are argueing with me that JL monoblocks are inefficent you do no know very much about JL product. JL's have to release a lot of heat and have a reletively small heat sink.
     
  17. Iseman

    Iseman New Member

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    Im pretty sure that the part of a faulty driver is where is was covered... your not saying its impossible.. your saying thats a possible cause... THAT MEANS IS CAN HAPPEN! :bigthumb:

    Also a mechanically failing woofer is more likely to over excert than a functioning woofer... so a woofer failure can be the cause!
     
  18. michelin man

    michelin man IDB Construction

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    bottom line, new sub and amp should solve the issue!
     
  19. lemans23

    lemans23 PV - The Vision of Sound

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    Your deductive reasoning skill is some of the worst I've ever seen. Since 24 is almost 25, and 25 is almost 26, which is almost 27, which is close to 28, which is next to 29, 24 is nearly 30! It doesn't work like that. A woofer simply cannot harm an amplifier if you have proper impedance. Now, if your woofer needs more power than the amp can give and you clip the shit out of the amplifier by cranking the gain and bass boost and make it work too hard, then yes, you can damage it. Otherwise no.
     
  20. GammaRadiation

    GammaRadiation Active Member

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    I said it will only happen if there is an internal short from exceeding the thermal limits. You can exceed thermal limits at any ammount of excursion.:)
     
  21. rebs

    rebs shares AIDS OT Supporter

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    i didnt say it could damage an amplifier, i said it could cause it to go into protect.

    Listen guys, you can say whatever you want, frankly the internet arguments are a joke, ive seen this happen in person..numerous times. When you guys have an argument that rules out experience, ill start caring what you say.
     
  22. GammaRadiation

    GammaRadiation Active Member

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    :hsugh:

    So you dont beleive me when I tell you that what you saw was because of exceeding thermal limits, and not because of excursion?
     
  23. Iseman

    Iseman New Member

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    I believe you saw it, whether or not that is the ONLY possible way that scenario could have played out... I dont believe... It may have been right then but that doesnt mean that every incident like that is the same...
     
  24. Iseman

    Iseman New Member

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    My deductive reasoning skills are about as good as your logic skills. The impedance of a speaker can change during play due to a damaged voice coil... so technically this entire argument is pointless... dead topic IMO
    :io:
     
  25. rebs

    rebs shares AIDS OT Supporter

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    hay michilin man, are these the ID's that are giving you trouble?
     
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