GUN Calgun junkies.

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Thunderbear, Sep 17, 2008.

  1. Thunderbear

    Thunderbear Yggdrasil's Forester.

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    After reading through the Kasler-Lockyer banned list, it is my opinion that SAIGAs are banned by name. However comma the listing that I came across had Kalashnikov USA listing its banned as "Hunter rifle/Saiga." But, were I inclined to be a legal guinea pig, I would challenge that, as worded, only rifle variants of Saigas were banned.

    There is someone on the S12 forum claiming to have made a Cali compliant S12, by covering the mag release in such a manner as to require a bullet button to drop the magazine.

    I was under the impression if on the banned list, it doesn't make shit for difference if you're compliant with the law. Am I wrong?
     
  2. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    well.....................



    Saiga RIFLES have been legally imported into the state for a few years now. HOWEVER, shotguns actually have some different restrictions on them. IIRC, the shotgun part of the AW law does not specify what 'detachable' is in the way that the rifle section defines it.

    The last I heard, people were trying to get them into the state, but I wasn't following the legal discussion very closely. I would (given what I know right now) steer clear of getting an S12 in CA, but it is very possible that the lawyers on CGN have gotten more info. If they have, I would love to see the thread about it.

    Unfrotunatly, it seems to me that this gentleman is confusing the rifle portion of 12020 with the shotgun portion, which could get him in some legal trouble if he doesn't go back and review it again.



    Also, as a side note, he isn't quite right about magazines either. Dissassembled they are fine, assembeled they are fine, it's the transition in between that is illegal. However, the burden is on the state to prove you never had the mags before the ban, and except for brand new pistols, basically anything could fly given a good lawyer. It's kinda like 922(r), on the books, but only really used in conjuction with other charges (though I've never even seen it on there).


    To adress your question specifically, it is correct that if it is on the banned list, it doesn't matter for shit what else you do. HOWEVER, the EXACT Name/Model info needs to be on the list, thus, the Kalashnikov USA Saiga is banned, but as Kalashnikov USA was just the importer, any saiga from a company OTHER than them (like, well, Saiga) is perfectly legal.

    For instance, if you wanted a x39 saiga, you could legally buy one from the gunshop if it didn't say 'Kalashnikov USA' as the manuf and 'Saiga' as the model. However, even if it is EXACTLY the same, the 'Saiga' manuf with '7.62x39' (or whatever) as the make is perfectly legal.

    Going even further, even if you bought a Kalashnikov USA Saiga, as long as the model was something like 'Saiga .223' or 'Saiga 7.62x39', you actually would still be withing (BARELY) the letter of the law.

    *whew*

    cliffs: S12 is still gray AFAIK, to be banned, has to have make AND model matching to the list.
     
  3. Thunderbear

    Thunderbear Yggdrasil's Forester.

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    My thoughts, more or less, agree with yours. I thought he was mixing and matching shotgun and rifle portions, too.

    Further fodder. SAIGAs have gone through almost as many importers as Steyr.. as I understand it, Kalashnikov USA is no longer an importer, nor is Red Star, or Russian American Armory Corp. European American Arms is, I believe. In any event, depending on the records kept and the level of detail kept by the shopkeeper, potentially NONE of the imported SAIGAs would be known as "Kalashnikov" or anything other than "SAIGA 12/20/410" model number "IZ-109" (for example, the model # to the 19" threaded barrel cylinder bore 12)

    Seems far more convoluted now. Are there any shops that are selling the shotguns?
     
  4. NEp8ntballer

    NEp8ntballer New Member

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    fuck California... you'd probably be better off challenging their registration practices using the Firearm Owner's Protection Act of 86. Hopefully I'll get stationed in Cali and whatever fun NFA toy/toys I buy with 25k of USAA loan can take the trip with me. I know that they allow active duty military to register assault weapons even after the end of the registration period, but I'd much rather tell them to fuck off and take them to court over it.
     
  5. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    not that I know of. But then I haven't really been to a shop in awhile with the purposes of buying shit, and even if I did, the two in merced are pretty anti-OLL :/
     
  6. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    :rofl:, GL getting NFA stuff into CA.
     
  7. NEp8ntballer

    NEp8ntballer New Member

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    being active duty military makes stuff happen that doesn't for normal people...
     
  8. more off

    more off Moderator

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  9. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    Not with happy switch stuff in CA. You will be able to get AWs, sure (LEOs can do it as well), but you aren't going to get NFA/SBR/etc
     
  10. A96HondaAccordCoupeEX

    A96HondaAccordCoupeEX Silver Member

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    Not really. No SBR and cant use suppressor.
     
  11. NEp8ntballer

    NEp8ntballer New Member

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    that violates my 2nd amendment rights... You'd think that a law abiding AF 2nd LT would be able to own such weapons in the sometimes great state of California...
     
  12. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    Yah, you would think so, wouldn't you? Welcome to CA. One of the reasons I'm getting out of this state in about a year.
     
  13. Sardaukar

    Sardaukar Active Member

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    The CA DOJ doesn't care about your 2nd Amendment rights.
     
  14. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    :rofl: every fucking gun law in this state violates 2nd amendment rights, you think they give a shit?
     
  15. more off

    more off Moderator

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    not big concerns of mine really anyways :fawk:

    can we SBS in in WA ? :eek3:
     
  16. NEp8ntballer

    NEp8ntballer New Member

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    I've noticed.

    no, and that to me is a problem...
     
  17. Sardaukar

    Sardaukar Active Member

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    Which is why among other things, many CA firearms owners jump ship.
     
  18. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    really? jeez i have no problem with it. Socalism '08!
     

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