GUN Buying my first shotgun, need advice v.870

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Rip The Jacker, Aug 14, 2008.

  1. Rip The Jacker

    Rip The Jacker New Member

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    after looking at 870's, Benelli's, and Stoegers(just because their tactical model is cheap) i'm pretty sure I want an 870. I just dont know which model to buy.

    I like the feel of 18" tactical's, but i dont want to sacrifice that much accuracy since i'll be shooting clays with it mostly. so i was thinking 24" barrel. would that be accurate enough?

    i'm looking at getting a pistol grip, so i'll probably just get one with a wooden stock to save money for now, how much can i save getting a used gun and is it worth it? should i get the extended magazine?

    any advice or critisisms?
     
  2. Ford4Life

    Ford4Life Guest

    Get an 870 with the 18" barrel, then just buy another Remington barrel for shooting clays, they are not that expensive. You can get a new 870, with 18" barrel and factory +2 extension on the mag tube for about $300.

    And yes, you can save money if you can find a used one. Prices vary, check pawn shops.
     
  3. 1979TA

    1979TA OT Supporter

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    clays you want at least a 28" barrel
     
  4. Painkiller

    Painkiller The Synarchy of Molten Bones

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    Get a supernova 26" with the comfort tech stock.
     
  5. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    I know traditional thinking is that for shotgun games such as sporting clays is to use a longer barrel. Mainly for the longer sight radius. I don't do much sporting clays (mostly 3 gun) but I much prefer the swing weight of a 20"-22" barrel. Is there another advantage of the longer barrel. I know there is no pattern or fps advantage.

    I'm amazed at all the guys on the net that want a 870 w/ pistol grip and want to use that to shoot clays. Do you actually see people out there with these. Around here I think they would get laughed at.
     
  6. 1979TA

    1979TA OT Supporter

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    There is pattern advantage... think about it, with a 28" over a 2" you are getting 8 more inches before your shot leaves the barrel and the pattern starts spreading. It does increase distance. many trap and sporting clays shooters are up to 32 and 34" barrels. But you have to remember, we are talking less than a foot of difference affecting the pattern in a very small way.

    20" would be ok for Skeet...

    and yes, when people bring pistol grip pumps, espescially with a short barrel to a trap or sporting clays shoot, they usually get laughed at, but hey, you gotta start somewhere. Pistol grips are just not condusive to the movements you do, and pumps are harder to get your repeat shot, especially with a target moving at 50 mph and a 10 yard window to hit 2 of them
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2008
  7. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    Well I'm coming from the arguement of short barrel (talking sawed off) shoot wider patterns. It was determined that barrel lenght had no or very little effect on shot pattern size, pattern size was determined by choke constriction. If we measure the spread from the end of the barrel 20" or 30" not from the shooter I would think they would pattern the same. Varies by choke of course but typically in IC it's 1" of spread per 3 yards (9 feet) so what is 8" - 10" really going to do.

    This is based on my own test patterns out of 18, 22, and 30" barrels. and stuff like this...

    From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawed-off_shotgun

    Barrel length and shot spread
    The length of a shotgun barrel does not significantly affect the pattern or spread of the pellets. The pattern is primarily impacted by the type of cartridge fired and the choke, or constriction normally found at the muzzle of a shotgun barrel. Cutting off the end of the barrel will remove the choke, which generally only extends about two inches (about 5 cm) inward from the muzzle. This results in a cylinder bore, which causes the widest spread generally found in shotgun barrels. For an even wider pattern, special "spreader chokes" or "spreader loads" can be used, that are designed to spread the shot further. (See choke for more information on the impact of chokes. See shotgun shell for information on spreader loads.)

    From Wikipedia

    Barrel length http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun#Barrel_length

    Shotguns generally have longer barrels than modern rifles. Unlike rifles, however, the long shotgun barrel is not for ballistic purposes; shotgun shells use small powder charges in large diameter bores, and this leads to very low muzzle pressures (see internal ballistics) and very little velocity change with increasing barrel length. According to Remington, modern powder in a shotgun burns completely in 25 to 36 cm barrels (12 inches).
     
  8. 1979TA

    1979TA OT Supporter

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    Basically it increases your reach by 8-10" if that is important to you. I'd say an all around barrel length would be 26", good for hunting and clay shooting.

    A longer barrel also increases your follow through, which is extremely important in moving clays.

    If you have a pattern 10 yards from the end of a 18.5" and the end of a 34" using an IC in both, you will have the same pattern. If you measure from shooter you will have a different pattern, so depending on your length of shot and choke being used, this may or may not be important.

    Now if you are talking about shooting clays off of someone's thrower in their back field, get whatever barrel you want.
     
  9. Rip The Jacker

    Rip The Jacker New Member

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    Last time at the range I did actually see someone with one. I dont know why people would laugh, everybody minded their own business.

    But yeah, I wouldnt want the pistol grip for clays neccessarily, from what I understand its a quick swap?
     
  10. Rip The Jacker

    Rip The Jacker New Member

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    This is just casual shooting by the way.
     
  11. Rip The Jacker

    Rip The Jacker New Member

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    I'm kind of trying to balance out the tactical look and good shooting. Worthless I know, but I love the look of tactical shotguns :hs:
     
  12. AustinL911

    AustinL911 Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator

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    Am I the only one who hates the look of pistol grips on shotguns?
     
  13. Milky

    Milky I'm in your Millenium Falcon, rumbling your Wookie

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    No you are not.

    A pistol grip does not really increase the handiness of the shotgun over a standard stock IMO. I don't know why everyone likes them, to me it makes them look like you are trying to hard to look tacticool ESPECIALLY if you try to shoot clays with it.
     
  14. Rip The Jacker

    Rip The Jacker New Member

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    i havent shot with a pistol grip yet but it felt more comfortable :dunno:
     
  15. Painkiller

    Painkiller The Synarchy of Molten Bones

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  16. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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  17. Milky

    Milky I'm in your Millenium Falcon, rumbling your Wookie

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    Did you try throwing it up to your shoulder and swinging it like you would for clays? I don't know, I haven't had a pistol grip and don't care to but it seems much more uncomfortable to me than the standard stock :dunno:. Do whatever feels best for you though as YMMV
     
  18. 1979TA

    1979TA OT Supporter

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    Pistol grip has no advantage other than hip shooting and precision shooting (deer hunting with slugs).

    My brother in law has an 870 with a pistol grip and it just screws up your movement, makes you less smooth, which is a big time disadvantage for any moving target.

    I think most people get pistol grips because
    A. they are decently comfortable to hold stable in one position
    B. Taticool
     
  19. 1979TA

    1979TA OT Supporter

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  20. Calhoun Burns

    Calhoun Burns ...and the gunslinger followed.

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    Where do you shoot 3-gun? West Jeff?
     
  21. 1979TA

    1979TA OT Supporter

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    I am going to do the one in Pickaway county...

    They also have Rattle Battles at Briar Rabbit a few times a year
     
  22. Calhoun Burns

    Calhoun Burns ...and the gunslinger followed.

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    I've heard about Briar Rabbit from the guys at Vance's - sounds like fun. I'd definitely like to give that a try sometime.
     
  23. 1979TA

    1979TA OT Supporter

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    Yeah, I know a lot of guys at Vances go to Briar Rabbit.

    They have a nice USPSA pistol course out there as well. I was going to go do that tonight, but I have a Dr's appt at 5 and can't go :wtc:
     
  24. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    The pistol grip shotgun is good if you do a weak hand reload. For 3 gun the fastest way to finger load a shotgun is to grad 4 shells in your left hand out of a shell caddy and work them into the gun. With a pistol grip you drop the stock under your armpit, muzzle pointed forward, hand on pistol grip. Run your 4 shells in, and lift the gun back up into firing positition as you load the 4th shell.

    If you load the shotgun with your strong hand you twist the gun over keeping your hand on the fore end and load 4 shells at a time. If you do it this way the pistol grip gets in the way.

    A strait stock is better to manage heavy recoil such as slugs.

    Here is a video of my squadmate jack who is one of the best finger loaders in the country doing a weak hand reload.

    http://madtrigger.net/videos/comp/fresno jack comp.wmv

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Here are some old pics I have of me demonstrating the strong hand cooley twist reload from wristband and side saddle. You can see where a pistol grip would get in the way.
     
  25. kf4zht

    kf4zht New Member

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    Most people I have watched cannot shoulder a pistol grip shotgun as quickly as a standard stock. Some can, but most of the one I have met trained themselves to do so.

    I can somewhat understand the desire for home defense, though I think the big factor there is actually the short barrel. For hunting bear or deer it does have an advantage, but most people on this board don't seem to care about hunting.

    I would buy one with a nice wood stock on it, it is much cheaper to purchase a pistol grip aftermarket than to find a decent looking piece of wood.

    Oh, and there is another reason for the long barrels skeet shooting. Weight, I have shot skeet with an 18" barrel. It kicks alot more due to the lower weight. I could see it wearing you out in half a day. A full dressed 500 or 870 with a 26-30" barrel is about easier to deal with the recoil. If you want the best you can go with a semi auto, or one with a kick redution system like the beretta extrema.

    I still like my O/U the best though.
     

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