Body Language

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by crown royal, Dec 3, 2009.

  1. crown royal

    crown royal Active Member

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    http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Book-Body-Language/dp/0553804723

    I am a communication moron. Women know this, men learn to accept it - women are better at reading people than men based on non-verbal communication. I would say that personally, I am even more hopeless than the average man. When it comes to cognition in communicative situations, I have never trusted my instincts and, to my detriment, rely only on the verbally linguistic portion of interaction.

    After spending the last several days studying the book linked above, my demeanor, emotional and physical self awareness and communications skills have drastically improved. I can read more than I ever though possible. I realize that I will need to hone this over time- I'm still not a good non-verbal communicator by any means, rather I'm much better than I was. I still struggle very much with deciphering interactively, but reading a group I am not involved in has become much easier.

    Not that I wish to have a blog, but I would like to use this thread to explore body language and non-verbal communication with those in this thread who either innately or purposefully read people based on their movements, looks and other various physical cues. While this is not necessarily only driven by romantic endeavor, I do think that it will help primarily in that area, as well as day to day communication. I also can't think of any place other than here that this thread would be best served in.

    My next post will discuss my situation tonight and what I learned and questions I may have.
     
  2. crown royal

    crown royal Active Member

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    After reaching the halfway point in the book, I decided to go to a local watering hole (by myself), sit in a corner, or some other secluded area in the bar, and do nothing but watch the interactions of people. I'm not naturally someone who learns kinesthetically, so without the book listed in my first post, people watching would be useless, but now I have some direction in what to look for.

    I'm going to focus on the three groups that interested me the most:

    1) Man & Woman seated at Hightop: They were around a square table, sitting at adjacent sides (rather than across from one another). At the beginning, the woman was sitting with her arms folded, body directly toward the table, and feet crossed at the ankles and under her. The man was seated leaning back, with knees splayed and hands on his thighs.

    As the evening wore on, the woman laughed and interacted, but very seldom changed her overall body position. It seemed that while she was interacting and showing interest, her overall body language stayed relatively guarded. Rarely did she show her palms in the first 30-45 minutes.

    The man stayed in his position generally, but changed a bit more frequently. For instance, after about 20 min, the woman uncrossed her arms to look at her menu. After a small waiting period, the man leaned a bit forward and, eventually, placed one leg on the woman's chair. After a few more minutes, her arms re-crossed, and the man's leg retreated.

    This went on for a while, until finally her legs uncrossed at the ankle and her arms did the same.
    Conclusion: This was likley some sort of date, though likely NOT the first, as neither showed any sort of facial timidity. Both are relatively comfortable and interested, but right now are slowly learning about each other and not too quick to come into themselves.

    2) Group of 4 Men and 1 Woman: Far less dynamic here, so I'll be more brief. At the beginning, it was only 3 men and one woman. One man stood, while all others sat. The two sitting men generally talked amongst themselves, with either ankles crossed or arms folded. The standing man rested his weight on one foot and pointed the non-weighed foot toward the sitting woman. The sitting woman sat with her legs crossed, the crossed leg pointing at the standing man. It seemed obvious that there was an attraction here, as she tended to tilt her head and maintain solid eye contact with him. I saw some hair strokes as well.

    Eventually, another man came in. He stood with hands on hips and his body pointed at the table. His weight was on both feet and about shoulder length. As soon as he got there, the other men all joined into the conversation and straightened up. I think that he displayed the most alpha characteristics of everyone, although the other men tried to stay up with him. The woman became more involved with the group as a whole once he arrived.

    When the woman left, she hugged the Standing Man the longest, and he was the one to finally break the hug after about 4-5 seconds. She hugged one other man, but she broke it after about 1.5 seconds.

    I found out from my waitress (see below) that she is actually married. But based on all this, I still think there is trouble in paradise.

    3) My Waitress: Creeped out yet? Well, tough shit. I'm trying to learn and it isn't about me making friends. But I'm pretty sure that my waitress was creeped out.

    After about 30 minutes of watching, I asked my otherwise very friendly waitress if I could get some help with something. Immediately she crossed her arms and turned about 60 degrees away from me. I think I made her uncomfortable as she thought I was hitting on her. I told her why I was there (prefaced it with the fact that I am soon going to be involved in sales and need to learn to read people - which is completely true).

    Simple conclusion - she thought I was a creepy guy who comes into bars alone and hits on the waitstaff.
     
  3. ForgottenSpiral

    ForgottenSpiral Hope and Irony OT Supporter

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    Your user text is awesome.

    Seriously though body language is very important. I mean a huge amount of our communication is non-verbal, so to understand it (or not) makes a significant difference on your ability to interact with others.
     
  4. crown royal

    crown royal Active Member

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    haha yeah, user text especially works for this thread.

    today I am going to practice body language within interpersonal interaction. that is, I'm going to focus on my own while I am actively communicating with someone, as well as their body language as they talk with me.
     
  5. Boudreaux

    Boudreaux Active Member

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    Good Read.


    Stop trying to use the seduction tactics on me though, kthnx
     
  6. Boudreaux

    Boudreaux Active Member

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    I've always felt i'm relatively decent at getting non-verbal communication in body language. I lack the formal 'education', if you will, of all the subtle hints and clues, but the collection of those for the big picture is something i've never had a problem with.
     
  7. ForgottenSpiral

    ForgottenSpiral Hope and Irony OT Supporter

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    Also Lie to Me is a great show.
     
  8. crown royal

    crown royal Active Member

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    I'll break you down eventually.
     
  9. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Not to be Mr. Study but they did an experiment recently that showed men and women differ in their reading efficacy based on the incentives.

    In short, unless the guy has a really strong incentive, he simply doesn't bother - as much.

    Whereas the women are inclined to read people with relatively little incentive. Just being told that their reading abilities are up for examination makes women amp up their reading efforts. The same is not true for men.

    But once you have gotten men to put their all into it, they are at the same level of ability. Specifically, if you PAY men to read people, they match women 1 for 1.

    The conclusion of this particular study was that what you're saying above is one of the 12591295891259's of "common sense" maxims that happen to be boolsheet.

    If we're going to go with "common sense," though, then it actually makes sense to me (me being a lowly commoner) that this would be the case. Women are socialized to value their own reading abilities because of people like you who say they should be better at reading people than you are based on their gender. So they put more effort into it on a day to day basis, which is where the urban myth comes from that they are innately better gifted.
     
  10. crown royal

    crown royal Active Member

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    OK, then instead of saying 'better' we should say 'more inclined,' but it doesn't make it less true. Essentially, in all communicative stages, a woman will always have her body language-reader turned on, whereas men only do so every once in a while.

    Luckily, I feel incentivised to ALWAYS read this now. It just makes for richer understanding.
     
  11. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Fair enough.

    It does make one big difference though.

    It means that if you put your mind to it you can instantly level the playing field. :bigthumb:

    Personally, day to day, I seem to encounter 90% men who suck at reading people, 1% who are decent, and 9% who are unbelievably, unfathomably great at reading people.
     
  12. crown royal

    crown royal Active Member

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    I agree with this, especially after speaking to the waitress. I disagreed with about 2 of her contentions, and while there is no easy way to tell which of us is right, I stand my ground.
     
  13. XxvODvxX

    XxvODvxX New Member

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    I'll fully admit, i don't give two craps about body language unless there is something in it for me... whether defensive or offensive strategy... However, when it comes to girls, it's always best turned on...
     
  14. crown royal

    crown royal Active Member

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    It does wonders for work too. I have to communicate a lot with what I do.
     
  15. ldaggerl

    ldaggerl New Member

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    Hmmm, just you saying this is making me really think about it. I honestly don't normally try to read people. I just see them and thats that, not a second thought. But I think I'll pay closer attention to people.
     
  16. crown royal

    crown royal Active Member

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    It's amazing. Just being pointed in the right direction and knowing what stuff means. I catch myself putting my body into all sorts of positions that i didn't know had meaning, but when I think about it, the emotional correlation is there!.
     
  17. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    I impulse bought that book at Borders one day years ago but I never did read more than just skimming through some of it.

    I've watched some vids on BL, tho. They're all similar for the most part.

    I still cross my arms all the time because it's comfortable. Fuck giving off "do not approach me" vibes :rofl:

    I feel like I'm turning on "fake mode" when I start paying attention to my body language. It's fun to see the results, tho. It's just so unnatural for a reformed misanthrope who is still naturally introverted like me, however :mamoru:

    edit - if I approach it from a "trying to be myself" standpoint then it bothers me. But if I approach it from a "this is all a game and I'm just using strategy" then I seem to not care so much, although it definitely feels "less real" and "more game-like" in that case. I don't mean "game" like how PUAs and black people refer to "game," I mean like an actual game.

    edit 2 - And approaching it from a "this is a game" standpoint scares me in the long run because I can see it leading me to depersonalizing people and developing two "modes." "Myself" mode and "playing the game to get the outcome I want from all the predictable people" mode. Think about the implications of that. It's scary.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
  18. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    What does the small subtext on the opening screen say? My TV's definition is not high enough to be able to read it.
     
  19. ForgottenSpiral

    ForgottenSpiral Hope and Irony OT Supporter

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    Which part? The massive small writing or the little pop ups?
     
  20. crown royal

    crown royal Active Member

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    I don't feel fake at all. If anything it allows me better association with what I might be feeling, since I'm otherwise emotionally retarded.
     
  21. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Both!
     
  22. ForgottenSpiral

    ForgottenSpiral Hope and Irony OT Supporter

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    the little popups say different things like "anxiety" "happiness" or whatever. The big mass of tiny text, I have no idea. :rofl:
     
  23. crown royal

    crown royal Active Member

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    Looks like I'll be eating lunch with about 4-5 colleagues. An excellent group of study. I'll report back later!
     
  24. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    I think it's also important to not read too much into body language because you're conclusions might be very wrong.

    i.e. just because someone sits with their arms crossed does not mean that they are closed off to you or what you are saying. They may be cold or it might just feel more comfortable to them because of how or what they've been doing earlier in the day.

    One study was done on people trying to discern whether someone was lying or not. They found that the most successful people took body language as only a potential clue as to what was really going on. It was simply one point of data, not conclusive proof. They would then consider these different points of data as a whole. Then those points of data indicated the person may be lying, they would then start questioning the person to either prove they were lying or not.

    The bottom line from this study was that body language should only be used as a possible indication of what someone is thinking. It's not conclusive proof and should never be used as such.
     
  25. crown royal

    crown royal Active Member

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    Yeah everything should be taken in context and, as the book describes, 'in clusters.' It isn't hard evidence, rather something you should pay attention to in an attempt to understand better. Communication flows, it isn't a logical program.
     

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