Backwards Rationalization, Self-Improvement, and Views on Women

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by Chip Chipperson, May 23, 2007.

  1. Chip Chipperson

    Chip Chipperson New Member

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    This post again started as a response to another post and grew out to something I think will benefit a lot of the people here - so that's why it is a bit particularly addressed (no names though mods :)). A lot of us here in the Vag, and on OT are very scientifically and logically-oriented people - it's the nature of IT, computer-savvy, internet-forum type people.

    I have always been and hope I will always be the kind of person who tries to look at a situation very objectively, very logically, and try to make my decisions based on a totally objective basis. Unfortunately, sometimes it's kind of hard to tell when you are actually objectively observing a situation or whether you are going with an emotional response and then trying to FIND evidence to try to justify to yourself that your emotional view is right - even if you are ignoring all the counter-evidence that shows you are quite in the wrong.

    A lot of this exists in your ideas about "whores" or "good girls." As a woeful addition your already misfounded maddona-whore complex, you believe that what causes attraction in one type of girl is vastly different from what causes it in another. This is not true. Women are attracted to masculine polarity, the things I wrote about in my identity posts - they are attracted to men. The subtle differences in what they value more are minute compared to the core pieces.

    Until you lose your blindspots and your limiting beliefs and your ideas about the differences in the attraction mechanisms of "intellectual" women and "whores" ...

    Until you truly embrace the fact that you have to change, you are not going to. Your ideas do not mesh with what is actually going on in the real, physical world. If you opened your eyes and stopped trying to backwards rationalize your EMOTIONAL feelings about things, you would notice this too.

    Everyone does the backwards rationalization. But it hurts you much more because you are a very logically minded person, and you are able to convince yourself even more thoroughly than those who do not have as of a strong rational mind.

    Myself, I try to be as logically minded as I possibly can; it is my default mode of examination. But the trick is to look at every decision you make and see if you are really in a position to make an objective assessment, or whether you are going with your gut reaction and then looking for excuses and backwards rationalizing that decision in order to convince yourself.

    You are using your intellect to try to justify your emotional, subjective feelings on what picking up girls should be like, or what kind of girls are sluts or are not sluts, or, and I was DEFINITELY someone who used to do this, why the "cynical, depressed, 'intellectual'" view of reality and the world is the one you should adhere to. But you have to really look deep inside and see if that's what's really going on, or if that's your gut feeling and you are finding an excuse to justify it and avoid changing your beliefs. Because changing (bad) beliefs is at the very core of self improvement, something which should be a lifelong quest for all of us.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2007
  2. gabacho numero uno

    gabacho numero uno New Member

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    I figured this out recently. I'm more of a classic rock type person, but I'm going to change my wardrobe/style to a more alt. rock/metal type of look which fits in with the crowd I'll be around up in Dallas. I liked that stuff when I was in junior high a lot, then got more into classic rock. I could like it again for the sake of my social life, and it doesn't even bother me to do so. you have to structure your solutions within the real perimeters of the situation, not what you'd ideally like them to be.
     
  3. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    I can't help but feel like this post was inspired by/directed at me ;)

    Good post, tho. I need to read it a few more times.
     
  4. scent of a wookie

    scent of a wookie OT Supporter

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    that's so fucking gay

    1) music doesn't have to influence your "wardrobe/style"
    2) be who you are
    3) don't try to conform to what other people are doing
     
  5. bandwagon

    bandwagon Copy/Paste

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    I am cognitively matrix-aware, I understand and agree with what you are saying, I understand 'secret society' theory, but my own feelings on the M/W complex override that. It's not a logical reaction, it's an emotional one.

    Can't blame people for how they feel... and that's the core of the issue on both sides.
     
  6. gabacho numero uno

    gabacho numero uno New Member

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    sorry, but I have no problem tailoring myself to appeal to the type of women I'm going to be around the most. there's nothing wrong with it if it doesn't bother you to do it. when my uncle was younger, back in his skirt-chasing days, he happened to live in a town in which most of the bars were more country-oriented. there weren't really any rock n' roll bars there. he was definitely a rock person, but he'd "get into character" for those country bars to appeal to the type of women who frequented them.

    just being yourself just doesn't always cut it. the reality is I'll do much better if I tailor my style this way. that is the reality of it. I could just "be myself" to make a point...and make love to my hand. judging from your post I don't think you got what the thread starter was saying.
     
  7. iwishyouwerebeer

    iwishyouwerebeer you shut your cunt Moderator

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    You really just don't get it, do you? Weak people are the kind of people who are obsessed with wearing certain types of clothing to fit a certain style of music. It's total bullshit. What's even more bullshit is someone trying to wear those clothes so that they can "fit in." If you want to better yourself and become more appealing to women you need to lose some weight and cut off your hair because it is long and greasy and unattractive. Clothes aren't going to change your whole appearance in a flash.
     
  8. I don't agree with this at all, just because you don't like his hair doesn't mean he has to cut it off. No matter how greasy or unattractive it is, he needs to make it look more clean, put it in a ponytail or something close to that. Clean up your hair is a better statement.


    This I agree on.
     
  9. iwishyouwerebeer

    iwishyouwerebeer you shut your cunt Moderator

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    He just needs to do something with it because he looks like Hurley from LOST
     
  10. Jackie Treehorn

    Jackie Treehorn Active Member

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    i concur :o

    Good post JKidd. I kind of wished it was dumbed down a bit though. I'm but a simple fool who wants to make sex on woman.
     
  11. Chip Chipperson

    Chip Chipperson New Member

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    I used to have the M/W, and still do but it's decreasing. I reailzed that it wasn't logically founded and was a product of my social conditioning and my own insecurities. I still think some girls are pretty fucking gross, but I realize that it's my own personal judgment and opinion of what I want and like - I realize there isn't any sort of objective support for it.

    I realized that trying to find an objective basis of morality or what a person should act like didn't make any rational sense when I really got down to its bone and examined why I had these beliefs. So, while I might prefer a certain kind of person (girl) in my life because of my own personal preferences - to believe that I am "morally superior" to a person because of XYZ is totally unfounded. It was an outgrowth of my ego.

    The great thing is that you can change these kinds of emotional beliefs through consistent exposure and regulation of your thought patterns.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2007
  12. gabacho numero uno

    gabacho numero uno New Member

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    Well the group of people I'll be chilling with are that way. I don't really give a fuck if you think that's "weak". You sound like a fucking elitist, to be completely honest.

    And it's not bullshit to wear something to fit in, if you don't MIND doing it. I don't. You're the one not getting this thread. If there is something you want you have to accept the perimeters in which it can be achieved, or else don't bitch when it doesn't happen for you.

    In order to get with the girl/s I want, I have to become the kind of person they're into.

    Oh and btw, YOU think my hair is "long, greasy and unattractive". The girls in my best friend's social circle all fucking like it, because they're the types of chicks who like that kind of thing. Not everyone is a fucking prep who likes clean cut guys in Hollister. Some chicks like dudes in black with tattoos, long/strange hair, facial hair, pearcings etc.

    You're way too arrogant, honey. I know you think you're helping, but you really do assume too much about how shit works. Not every bitch on this planet is a clone of you.
     
  13. Chip Chipperson

    Chip Chipperson New Member

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    groucho I'm not really sure how you interpreted my original post in the way that you did, but I think I'm glad to see that, whilst you still have plenty of inner turmoil to conquer, you are no longer so resistant to change.
     
  14. gabacho numero uno

    gabacho numero uno New Member

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    basically I've come to accept 3 basic things, that I feel will be succesful in getting me laid/getting a girlfriend:

    1)I have to be willing to be the type of guy I have to be in order to have success with women
    2)I have to know what kind of women I want
    3)I have to be more specifically the kind of guy those women want to be with
     
  15. Chip Chipperson

    Chip Chipperson New Member

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    Good. You've eliminated your blindspots that girls should like you because, gosh darn it, you're just a great person, and have realized that certain things cause attraction. And if you want to receive that attraction, you have to embody those tihngs.
     
  16. iwishyouwerebeer

    iwishyouwerebeer you shut your cunt Moderator

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    :bowrofl: An elitist? No sweetie. Any rational grown up will tell you on here that changing your style of clothing to fit in is always pathetic. I listen to rock, punk, alternative. Do I look like that chick you see wearing lots of eyeliner, black clothes, and all sorts of shit people associate to rockers? Nope. Most people would look at me and think I was a preppy (which is what you labeled me), but I wear what I like and feel comfortable in. Oh yeah, I also have no interest in Abercrombie model looking dudes. Shit, I dated a guy with hair as long as yours, but he took care of it! But good luck with trying to fit in yo.

    PS-Arrogant? No. Confident? Definitely. And if you were confident in yourself you wouldn't feel the need to change your clothes to try and impress girls.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2007
  17. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    I just can't get over girls who like complete douchebags. I practically could care less about everything else, but if a girl sleeps with guys who wear the MTV thug uniform or the NJ guido A|X and Dolce and Gabbana shit... I just cant respect her.

    I mean i could hear "one night she blew me and two of my buddies in the parking lot!" and i think... oooh, this girl is crazy :naughty:

    but a fake ass guido or thug? :barf: what a dumb whore. :rofl:
     
  18. iwishyouwerebeer

    iwishyouwerebeer you shut your cunt Moderator

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    Those guys make me want to :barf:

    I used to work with a bunch of them who had all moved from NJ. They were so obnoxious and the women that chased after them were even dumber.
     
  19. gabacho numero uno

    gabacho numero uno New Member

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    Rational grown ups respect other people's choices. There's nothing wrong with it if people want to dress in black, have long hair, tattoo's etc.

    I don't NEED to change my clothes to attract girls, but it will help me attract the KINDA girls I wanna be with. That makes perfect sense. It's easier to fit a round peg in a round hole than a square peg into a round hole. :dunno:

    Also, why do you say I don't take care of my hair? I wash it everyday, I keep this leave-in conditioner in it to help it be less unruly(my hair is EXTREMELY thick, heavy and straight, I think it's the Native American in me) so it's easier to brush, tie back etc.

    I might have shown you one pic where it happened to be in a less presentable state(I don't think I had my hair done up in the pic where I have the beard and sunglasses...), but it's like in this one...

    [​IMG]

    ^here it had been washed, conditioned, had the leave-in conditioner put in it and had been brushed.
     
  20. nish81

    nish81 OT Supporter

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    here's a dumb question, but I really have to ask...what is the madonna-whore complex? my guess is that it's the way of thinking that girls are either 'intellectual, smart and non-sluttish' or 'whores' - am i right? (or, amirite?)
     
  21. Chip Chipperson

    Chip Chipperson New Member

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    pretty much, that cuts right to the root of it, yeah
     
  22. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    has little do do with the intelectual part...

    to mangle a quote for brevities sake.. think about it as "putting the pussy on a pedestal" OR putting it in the gutter.

    its when you think of all women above or below you, which leaves you all by yourself.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2007
  23. Chip Chipperson

    Chip Chipperson New Member

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    ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the way i meant it and the way its commonly used... he had it about right

    You either believe a woman is a virginal good girl or she's a slut.
     
  24. gabacho numero uno

    gabacho numero uno New Member

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    that sounds like putting the pussy on a pedestal.
     
  25. nish81

    nish81 OT Supporter

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    thanks :)
     

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