Audi pulls out of the power race

Discussion in 'OT Driven' started by Dr. Woo, Oct 14, 2004.

  1. Dr. Woo

    Dr. Woo Guns don't kill people

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    Audi will look to New Technologies and Lighter Weight Materials to Increase Performance

    For two and a half decades the performance divisions of Germany's top three prestige automakers, Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz, have battled it out in a race for ultimate horsepower and all out driving dynamics. With battles waged in nearly all market segments the trio of high-priced German carmakers has turned the '80s, '90s, and what we've seen of this new millennium into an interesting spectacle.

    No true import automotive enthusiast could deny excitement over the news of Audi's original super-wagon, the Porsche-tuned RS2. Designed by Quattro GmbH, no other factory-produced compact wagon could top its explosive power. Nor can anyone turn a blind eye to the overloaded antics of Mercedes-Benz in its latest assault on the super-luxury crowd. With vehicles powered by supercharged V8 and twin-turbocharged V12 powerplants, nothing comes close in the torque department. BMW's most recent rendition of the M5 is perhaps the quintessential super-sedan, built with an F1-inspired V10 and a 7-speed paddle-shift sequential gearbox.

    But the competition, particularly the one-upmanship that has taken place over the previous five years is soon to be reduced to a battle of two German automakers, at least now that Audi has officially pulled out of the horsepower race. Stephen Reil, General Manager of Development at Quattro GmbH, the man responsible for procuring Audi's RS models, commented on the issue saying, "Continuing to increase the power outputs is not the way forward. With more power the car normally gets heavier and then you need more power again."

    Weight has always been considered the mortal enemy of sporting cars, as it hampers acceleration, reduces cornering agility and compromises braking capabilities. The "larger and more powerful is better" cycle that gets repeated with each new generation of models has to stop, according to Audi, which bodes well for a concentration on other important developmental areas and hopefully a trend that will shed years of weight gain from upcoming vehicles.

    Another critical issue involved with the horsepower race is getting the power to the ground. Reil also took the opportunity to bash rear-wheel drive competitors whose recent releases include the 507 horsepower BMW M5 and 603 horsepower Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG saying, "With a rear-wheel-drive car, all you succeed in doing is lighting up the yellow traction control sign." While Audi has never had such a problem thanks to its innovative permanent all-wheel drive system, this is definitely a sign that Audi won't be switching to rear-drive anytime soon.

    While at first Reis's comments make it appear that vehicles such as Audi's 450 horsepower RS6 may no longer be competing against BMW and M-B in the horsepower race, this shouldn't mean that new Audi's won't be able to measure up on the street and track. Riel added that the Quattro division is aiming to develop cars that blend the best of the high-power output world with "outstanding driving dynamics and road handling."

    A key idea to delivering Reil's goals of improved dynamics comes not from the Quattro division, however, but from Audi. Earlier this year VAG boss Bernd Pischetsrieder encouraged Audi's engineers to improve the way that the automaker's cars handled and rode. The way that its engineers solved this problem was to shift the engine towards the center of the car, similar to Infiniti's front-midship rear and all-wheel drive architecture that currently places its G35 sedan and coupe at the forefront of the compact luxury class for driving dynamics. The technique used, which improves a car's weight distribution while reducing the mass slung over the front wheels, is also often seen in hotrod and sports car circles.

    On what car will Audi's Quattro division exercise its new school of thought? Analysts say that the next vehicle up for the supercar treatment is the A3, however a hotter version of the new 2005 A6 is also said to be on the way. Rumors of the car utilizing Lamborghini's 5.0-liter V10 to counter the new 507 horsepower M5 could very well be proven false if Reil's statements are indeed true. But one thing is for sure, we will know the vehicle when it arrives. A new naming scheme for high performance Audis is reportedly being created, one that steps away from the R and S logo types.
     
  2. curiousgeorgeM3

    curiousgeorgeM3 naughty little monkey

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    Thread should be re-titled: "Audi can't take the heat......the pussies are giving up"

    "With a rear-wheel-drive car, all you succeed in doing is lighting up the yellow traction control sign." While Audi has never had such a problem thanks to its innovative permanent all-wheel drive system, this is definitely a sign that Audi won't be switching to rear-drive anytime soon.
    Totally untrue. I good driver can use all the power in these new supercars. And of course Audi will never abandon Quattro because it has been what they have built their entire identity on. Without it there would be nothing different from them and their sister company, VW. But hey, at least with Quattro around we know that if we ever want to race in the rain we will beat all the Mbs and BMWs out there. Because we all know true car performance is measured by how you perform during a typhoon. Thank Gawd for Quattro.....

    Riel added that the Quattro division is aiming to develop cars that blend the best of the high-power output world with "outstanding driving dynamics and road handling."
    It's about time. If Audi provided any less driving dynamics, they would come equipped with a robot that drives you to your destination while you sleep in the back seat.
     
  3. Chris87

    Chris87 flatoutperformance.com

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    Interesting article. We can speculate all we want about what this is going to mean for Audi, but I think we're just gonna have to wait and see.

    I think the only thing I can say with a bit of confidence is they'll come out with an S3 which will be an even better and meaner version of the VW R32. I'd love to see it have the performance to compete with the Evo and STI, but I doubt it'll happen. Not unless all the luxury items are dropped, but then it wouldn't be an Audi - it would be a stripped down version of the R32, and that just doesn't make any sense. It'll be a great car though.
     
  4. Merli

    Merli gplus.to/merli OT Supporter

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    Not exactly. If you have to modulate the throttle to control wheelspin, then you're not using "all the power in these new supercars"...

    If you need an experienced driver to modulate the throttle to quench wheelspin, he's OBVIOUSLY not able to fully open the throttle at will (which you can with a 4WD/AWD/Quattro/Whatever car) and use "all the [available] power".

    Of course driver skill plays a dominant role in how these cars behave, and an experienced driver can drive the car to it's limits without lighting up the little yellow warning triangle every time he stabs at the throttle... No-one is denying that.

    Audi is simply saying, that the aforementioned "limits" of the car is raised by using all 4 wheels to scrabble for traction when unleashing 1000Nm of torque onto the asphalt.

    :)

    [/audi defence mode off] :o
     
  5. curiousgeorgeM3

    curiousgeorgeM3 naughty little monkey

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    :rofl: :rofl:

    Isn't there a significant amount of drivetrain loss in an AWD car as opposed to a RWD? If true, one could argue that you are also not using all the power in AWD since you are losing some through the drivetrain? I know......I am grasping at straws here ;) Also, I was able to get the S4 to lose traction when applying aggressive full throttle so in reality you can't always use all the power in AWD all of the time. Again, major straw grasping going on here :big grin:
     
  6. Merli

    Merli gplus.to/merli OT Supporter

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    :rofl:

    Yes, I suppose you could argue that instead of modulating the throttle and reducing the power output, the Quattro/4WD system is reducing the power output for you instead :big grin:

    And yeah, 4WD is by no means a foolproof solution to 100% traction... But after owning a 500hp RWD Skyline and now a 600hp 4WD Skyline, I can tell you without a doubt that it does help considerably in putting the power down to the ground :hs:
     
  7. curiousgeorgeM3

    curiousgeorgeM3 naughty little monkey

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    :eek3: .....pics??
     
  8. Merli

    Merli gplus.to/merli OT Supporter

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    I don't really want to taint this forum with jap crap, so I'll only post a few photos :hs:

    1996 R33 GTS-t

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    1997 R33 GTR

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    No engine pics of the second one on this laptop, will put one up tomorrow :o
     
  9. curiousgeorgeM3

    curiousgeorgeM3 naughty little monkey

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  10. Chris87

    Chris87 flatoutperformance.com

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    I concur.
     
  11. Dr. Woo

    Dr. Woo Guns don't kill people

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    :rolleyes: I think it goes without saying that Audi's consistent domination of DTM and Le Mans (as well as their strong showings in the SPEED World Challenge GT Series) solidify the fact that they are, without a doubt, about as far from "pussies" as it comes.
     
  12. Dr. Woo

    Dr. Woo Guns don't kill people

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    I'd like to say that this means they are jumping at the chance to occupy the niche that BMW just left behind...lightweight, relatively lower-powered vehicles with intense driving dynamics. More power does not always mean faster, as evidenced by the previous gen M5's domination of its class for years.

    The next S3 will see the 3.6 FSI engine, I'm almost sure of it, as rumored to be coming to the next Golf R model (R36, obviously). That should be a car to look out for.

    You pretty much said it yourself...that's not what an Audi is about. Sportiness and driver comfort at the same time, not a focus on one or the other.

    If you want a stripped-down R32, then buy an R32 and strip it down, I suppose.
     
  13. curiousgeorgeM3

    curiousgeorgeM3 naughty little monkey

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    :rofl: :rofl: I knew you'd get all pissy by that comment. Audi does have a decent racing program but I would hardly call them dominators. Le Mans???....yes they win but because they are the only company out there that is a full blown factory effort in the prototype class. Porshce, BMW, and MB have all pulled out years ago for more serious racing efforts in other more prestigious series....i.e., Formula1. When is Audi gonna step up to the F1 plate?? Probably never. DTM?? Euro version of NASCAR. Nothing to brag about. Audi and MD do it for the publicity. Why doesn't Audi race in the premiere Euro touring car series, ETCC??
     
  14. Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan

    Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan OT Supporter

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    Audi doesn't run factory cars anymore in Le Mans, a few years ago they sold all the cars and they are run by private owners. And the speedGT RS6s are doing pretty well AFAIK
     
  15. Dr. Woo

    Dr. Woo Guns don't kill people

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    As boondocksts pointed out, the R8s are now privately owned.

    And DTM is the European NASCAR? Now you're just being silly.

    Audi probably won't step up to F1 because it's focused on other endeavors. The R8 wasn't just some side project...it took a lot of devotion and a lot of money to create that beast, and it shows.

    There are a lot of companies in F1 that I couldn't give a shit about. Renault and Toyota sure seems to be using their racing experience for their stock vehicles...

    And where's MB's "more prestigious effort?" Le Mans is huge, and to say otherwise is to admit to your extreme tunnel-vision.
     
  16. JMG

    JMG Guest

    1) I'd expect nothing less from someone like you

    2) the B6 S4 beats the e46 M3 in the turns due to the Quattro system

    3) your BMW doesn't make your penis bigger

    4) Audi doesn't hate you, why do you hate Audi? Are you insecure about something?
     
  17. elysium

    elysium Guest

    I'm pretty sure that 3 out of 4 of Audi's Le Mans wins were via "works" cars (aka factory supported). There was no other major "works" prototype cars to compete with them during any of those years. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure this year was the first time that a non-works Audi won (because in 2003 the Bentley LMP won). Here's a record of past wins for proof (http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/lemans.html)
    Note that zero Audi wins occurred during the previous years when manufacturers like BMW and Porsche still competed with their own prototype cars.

    And Mercedes-Benz' "more prestigious effort" is Formula 1 in which they've always competed. They've almost always done well too, btw.

    On a side note, the Renault Formula 1 team you mentioned is one of only two teams (Renault and Mercedes-Benz) that have won Grand Prix's this year against the beast of Ferrari. Both teams are also in the top 5 of the constructor's championship (along with BMW I might add).

    As far as the German DTM series... I've also heard it coined as Germany's NASCAR due to its extreme popularity there. Keep in mind that only 3 local manufacturers compete (Audi, MB, Opel). Sound familiar? NASCAR also has only 3 local competing manufacturers (Chevy, Ford, Chrysler/Dodge). A small field of manufacturers obviously limits competition. Both series also have strict guidelines such that the technological playing field is as level as possible. Thus, races are determined mostly by driver skill and pit strategy rather than constructor technologies and engineering skill. For the previously mentioned reasons, some people like CGM3 and myself do not view the DTM series as a high quality competition for manufacturers to demonstrate their techonologies and engineering skill. I challenge you to find such crucial drawbacks in Formula 1.

    This is not meant to be a flame, and I appreciate Audi cars and the DTM series for what they are. However, I refuse to elevate either one to some mythical level. :hs:
     
  18. curiousgeorgeM3

    curiousgeorgeM3 naughty little monkey

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    Cars were sold to private owners but are still heavily, heavily supported by Audi. I know a guy that has tested the R8 for a possible seat and raced the S4 a time or two for Champion Audi so I trust his knowledge.

    What he said......and to clarify......not a Audi hater. I just like to argue this shit :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2004
  19. curiousgeorgeM3

    curiousgeorgeM3 naughty little monkey

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    :jerkit: Anyone on this board knows that I would have no problem owning an Audi and overall I do have much respect for them. I am only trying to have a spirited debate and stirring up a bit of shit. If you weren't such a noob-jack-ass you'd realize that.

    As far as your "from someone like you" comment, bitch please...STFU you don't know me. Go crawl back in the hole from where you came, newbie.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2004
  20. Dr. Woo

    Dr. Woo Guns don't kill people

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    So where's Renault's race experience going? Same place as Toyota's...right down the shitter.
     
  21. Dr. Woo

    Dr. Woo Guns don't kill people

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    Could've fooled me.
     
  22. curiousgeorgeM3

    curiousgeorgeM3 naughty little monkey

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    I've stated in several threads that overall I like Audis and that given certain circumstances they would be my #2 or #3 choice for owning. Just because I believe their driving dynamics are a bit on the boring side does not mean I hate the overall package.
     
  23. johnkelcy

    johnkelcy Guest

    Yeah, that's it :x:

    The Audi R8 triumphs three times in succession at probably the world’s most demanding car race, the Le Mans 24 Hour race. In 1999, Audi finishes on the podium at the first attempt, one year later Audi monopolises all three steps on the winner’s rostrum. The Audi’s are triumphant again in 2001, this time with the cars equipped with the new FSI-technology. Audi proves yet again that the company slogan "Vorsprung durch Technik“ is a force to be reckoned with. Audi finally writes motorsport history with their third victory in succession in 2002. As a result, the Le Mans trophy officially becomes the property of AUDI AG – it can be seen at the Audi museum mobile in Ingolstadt. In front of 200,000 spectators, Audi’s importer teams Audi Sport Japan Team Goh, Audi Sport UK Team Veloqx and Team ADT Champion Racing (Audi Sport North America) score a 1-2-3 victory for Audi in 2004.
     
  24. curiousgeorgeM3

    curiousgeorgeM3 naughty little monkey

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    Please read the entire thread before talking out of your ass and making ghey posts about issues we have already discussed and moved on from.

    Yes, Audi dominates the LeMans prototype class
    ......wow....great. I love LeMans and the R8 but let's face it...Audi didn't start dominating until after the other major german manufacturers pulled out of the protype class. Also, Audi has yet to EVER prove themselves a force in any other major racing series outside of LeMans except way, way back in the day in Rally.

    What's up with all the retarded noobs around here lately. Don't mods work around here???
     
  25. curiousgeorgeM3

    curiousgeorgeM3 naughty little monkey

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    :rofl:
     

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