Att. Guys: What Not To Do. Really.

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by JaneJaneJohnson, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. JaneJaneJohnson

    JaneJaneJohnson New Member

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    Hellooo OT! Long time no see...

    This guy turned me off so much I figured I'd let Off Topic craft my next response to him.

    Here's the story...

    This random guy and I were walking the same way so he started up a conversation. It was the usual small talk: when he asked where I was going, I said I was meeting up with JJJ, who, I explained, happens to be my polyamorous husband (and my love :) ). I mentioned that I'm a street fund-raiser, pole-dancer and aspiring actor, etc, etc, etc. The usual low-down.

    I liked the man, "Angelo," quite a lot. We tentatively floated the possibility of meeting up the next day, and I gave him my e-mail address. Yaay, I thought. A new friend!

    Alas, it was not to be, because Angelo was utterly insane. Emails follow...

    :ugh:

    I'm a little aghast at my failure to sense the crazy in this guy. The worst part is that I was genuinely into this new potential friendship. And I wasn't averse to anything developing into more, though it didn't seem likely since, you know, I thought he was gay. But now the only thing that he's convinced me of is that he's a bitter, pschologically unstable, mildly vindictive asshole.

    OTers, LEARN FROM THIS MAN.

    Thank-you. Carry on.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2009
  2. Panoptimist

    Panoptimist Put a bangin' donk on it.

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    I totally understand where you are coming from as far as his response and further action, I just don't understand the dynamics of your relationships with your husband and other people. To each his own. :dunno:
     
  3. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    we've already done this conversation a thousand times.

    welcome to the vag.
     
  4. Panoptimist

    Panoptimist Put a bangin' donk on it.

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    I guess truly loving someone means that you love them no matter what and want them to be happy and will happily do what it takes to ensure that that's how it is, but what's the point in marrying or putting any sort of emotion or intention behind a single person in an overall sense when everything truly seems spread so thin? Apologize in advance for being so young and naive.
     
  5. Panoptimist

    Panoptimist Put a bangin' donk on it.

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    Is there a thread in the archive or something I should search?
     
  6. Deborah

    Deborah Seeing is believing, but I don't want to know.

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    honestly, I don't really think he is that crazy, well he was harsh in the last emails, but that was probably because you called him gay. You just never do that when you KNOW they are straight, yes you are honest blah blah, but no straight guy wants to hear that and some might take it as an insult. So you were inconsiderate too.
     
  7. djshotglass

    djshotglass New Member

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    :rofl: come on I thought it was funny he had it coming

    guy sounds like a total douche nozzle. First e-mail "I'm not interested in your husband only you"
     
  8. JaneJaneJohnson

    JaneJaneJohnson New Member

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    Hi Deborah,

    I don't think that having an ambiguous gender identity is bad, insulting, or unattractive. So I don't think mentioning it should be taboo.

    But you're right, and I'm not stupid - I know that some straight men find such comments deeply insulting.

    Therefore, given that he'd already fired the opening salvo of implying that I was a fickle, manipulative, deceitful, debauched, callous game-player, I decided to reply with a perfectly polite, carefully neutral response that would infuriate him to the exact extent of his insecurity.

    So, technically, my actions were considered, rather than inconsiderate.
     
  9. Diesel66

    Diesel66 My standards for women is like rent-a-centers stan OT Supporter

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    well use this as a lesson. If someone asks if you have a bf, say you are married and leave it at that. Unless you really want to jump their bones, then you can mention the poly side.

    if they stick around as friends, you can add the info.
     
  10. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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  11. JaneJaneJohnson

    JaneJaneJohnson New Member

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    The reason I tell people about the polyamory straight away is because I want to be regarded as a person in and of my own right - not part of a pair.

    Also, I find that saying "I have a boyfriend/husband" without that clarification in the initial meeting stages generally puts an immediate damper on even having a friendship with men. Unfortunate, but true.

    However, I am always very careful to emphasize the most important part of my situation - that I happen to be deleriously in love with JJJ. Usually the person listening will then realize that I'm not easily available or easily distracted, and that I'm not necessarily actively seeking to hook up.

    Though, you know, occasionally I am :)

    If I'm not interested in someone sexually, then I'll let them know that I'm not interested in them as ME, as an independent entity, not because "oops, I have a boyfriend". JJJ never prevents me from exploring physically or romantically with anyone, and it feels... wrong... somehow... to attribute that role to him, even if it's an easy way out of awkward situations.

    I thought that in my first e-mail response to "Angelo" that I had delicately but firmly let him know exactly that - I wasn't very interested in dating him/fucking him/whatever, but that I was very into being friends. Unfortunately, it all went downhill from there.
     
  12. iwishyouwerebeer

    iwishyouwerebeer you shut your cunt Moderator

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    :werd:

    I have no qualms about your relationship with JJJ, but if you truly thought this guy was gay, and saw him as nothing more than a possible friend...why tell him you are polyamorous?

    I mean that's great if you are so proud of your chosen lifestyle you want to shout it from the rooftops, but I know you have to be more socially aware (and less naive) than to just tell every person you meet you are a polyamorous, pole-dancing, aspiring actress.

    It more sounds like you were intrigued sexually by this guy but when he tried to say he didn't care for your sexual choices you sort of turned on him as if he must be so close-minded to not get immediately where you were coming from.

    At least that's how I interpreted it :dunno:
     
  13. just_another_on

    just_another_on New Member

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  14. JaneJaneJohnson

    JaneJaneJohnson New Member

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    And that brings me back to the original purpose of this thread - I was very willing to go out with this Angelo creature, and hey, maybe something might have happened. However, his spasms of e-mail vitriol have totally nixed any possibility of that ever happening. So don't burn bridges that you don't need to burn, people!

    Also: what should I say next, if anything?
     
  15. Deborah

    Deborah Seeing is believing, but I don't want to know.

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    Don't respond,there is really no reason to do so.
     
  16. BlazinBlazer Guy

    BlazinBlazer Guy Witness to The De-Evolution of Mankind.

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    I wouldn't call it young and naive, I'd say you think like a vast majority of the population. I don't understand or agree with the lifestyle either, but I'm not going to fault them for living it if that's what they choose to do.

    Now as for the handling of this situation, Emily, I think you missed a very clear sign right from the start that should have altered your initial response. This guy asked you very early on in your conversation upon meeting if you had a boyfriend. That in most cases is clearly a signal from the guy that he's interested in you as more than a platonic friend. Your response of "I'm polyamorous" in his mind is a clear implication of "OK then, she finds me sexually appealing."

    Obviously this was not the case for you, as your intentions were more platonic in nature. As such, your response should simply have been "yeah, I have a boyfriend/I'm married" so as not to lead him on.

    I do agree that maybe he blew it out of proportion way too quickly when you shot him down, and if he was no longer interested in any contact he should have simply said "sorry to hear that; I won't waste any more of your time then. Enjoy that husband of yours!" and left it alone. Though I can see where his other responses came from too. Hate to say it, but in my eyes you kinda walked right into that one.

    Oh, and as for telling a straight man you thought he was gay? You should NEVER do that considering the amount of damage you could to to someone's self esteem or confidence when you don't know them very well. He could have been teased about that throughout his life, and was working to be more outgoing with women so as to make people see him differently (or even make him see himself differently) and you just crushed whatever progress he'd made in that endeavor.

    So yeah, I think on your part it's good that you're so open with yourself and uninhibited about your lifestyle, but you have to remember you're living in a society where the vast majority of folks aren't so accepting or understanding, and don't "get" your way of behaving around people. You're expecting or looking for people to be more accepting than they necessarily are of your relationship dynamics.
     
  17. Diesel66

    Diesel66 My standards for women is like rent-a-centers stan OT Supporter

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    but you said you thought he was gay ?:hsugh:



    wasn't intentional, but you did lead him on a bit. I ask a girl if she is in a relationship or not and she tells me she's poly, that is a sign that she's open and I have a chance.
     
  18. JaneJaneJohnson

    JaneJaneJohnson New Member

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    Huh, interesting.

    I wasn't sure that he was gay. I only suspected. I wasn't sexually interested in him.

    I tend to clarify my relationship with JJJ unless there's a reason NOT to. IE, it's an extremely formal or corporate situation where any talk of romance isn't appropriate. I feel like it's an integral part of who I am, and while I don't see a particular need to shout it from the rooftops, I certainly don't see any reason to hide it from people.

    I am exquisitely aware that there's the unfortunate possibility that the "I'm polyamorous" statement might be construed as a sexual invitation. ESPECIALLY by those people who equate alternative lifestyles with indiscrimate sexual behaviour (not that I'm making a value judgment about that :p). That is precisely why I always emphasize the "I'm nauseatingly in love with my partner/husband/lover John" part afterwards.

    And if someone who is interested in me makes unwelcome advances, I will do the same thing as any other self-respecting single female and say "No, thanks, I'm flattered, but not interested."

    By the way, I didn't think this guy was averse to my sexual choices, in the abstract, at all. I think he was just miffed that my sexual choices didn't include HIM.
     
  19. BlazinBlazer Guy

    BlazinBlazer Guy Witness to The De-Evolution of Mankind.

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    [y]oJEMX_iuCXE[/y]

    Sorry, couldn't resist :mamoru:
     
  20. CorpseStreet

    CorpseStreet New Member

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    I don't get why you feel the need to divulge so much information about yourself immediately to strangers. You shouldn't be surprised at all that the guy would think you were leading him on since most people don't give that level of information unless they are interested in the other person.

    You using the reasoning that men won't want to be friends with you because you are in a relationship makes it seem as if the friendship would solely be based on the potential that the guy can get in your pants. I wouldn't exactly want to be friends with someone if they didn't want to hang out with me regardless of my relationship status. By including that you are polyamorous right after saying that you are in a relationship makes it seem as if you're trying to give the guy hope that they have a chance with you. This doesn't seem to be your intention but that is definitely what you are doing.

    Lastly, you won't be seen as part of a pair if you don't make the situation that way. Whoever you happen to meet doesn't meet JJJ, they meet you and they only have a relationship with you. Once you start bringing your SO into the mix and the person gets to know your SO more then you risk being part of a pair.
     
  21. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    :rofl:

    Talk about "leading the witness."

    Yeah, the guy was a douche bag in those last couple of messages. But I can also see why he was upset with you.

    It's pretty obvious that you showed this guy some romantic interest and then in the middle of the game made a pretty abrupt switch on him.
     
  22. JaneJaneJohnson

    JaneJaneJohnson New Member

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    Hi Blazin,

    First, I think you might be right about the gay comment. It was calculated to hit, shall we say, a little below the belt. I felt at the time that I had to reply with *some* kind of fire, given that he'd accused me of leading him on for the sake of gratifying my own ego, and the most viciously polite way to skewer him was by simply stating the truth.

    But yes, you're right, it might have some long-lasting effects on the guy. So I perhaps went too far.

    Back to whether I led him on or not - firstly, I need to re-clarify that although I wasn't actively interested in the guy, I wasn't ruling anything out. For goodness' sake, we had just met on the street for five minutes! We DID have rapport, which is why I gave him my e-mail address. That's the most tragic part, in a way, because if he hadn't attacked me for stating that I hadn't assumed romantic intentions on either of our parts, we WOULD have gone out together the next week and although I was anticipating a friendship, it could have potentially been something else entirely.

    Secondly, in my opinion, stating one's availability is NOT the same thing as advertising interest. Again, no leading-on occurring.

    Thirdly, I think I need to expand on the meeting a wee bit. I had condensed it for the same of not boring OTers, but I can go into detail if necessary. Basically, he asked me where I was headed, if I was meeting someone. I said I was headed to the union square area to meet up with JJJ who was my lover, and who I happened to be married to, however it was unconventional because we were polyamorous, but I was VERY in love with him. That was late in the conversation. Earlier, he had asked me where I was coming from, which is when we discussed my current job. He asked me, too, what I liked to do apart from that which is when I brought up the acting. When we were talking about *his* job (which I'm not going to name, for privacy issues), I mentioned that I was a pole-dancer because it seemed like we might be able to collaborate on a business venture together in his field.

    It was a decidedly un-flirtatious conversation, which is hard to convey given the particular talking points that happened to come up. The point is, I wasn't reading any signs that I needed to shoot him down or manage his interest in me, *particularly* since he was a little effeminate. He didn't give me that sultry, oh-so-casually-meaningful "Sooo.... do you have a boyyyfriend?". We were just chatting, two outgoing, slightly outrageous people on a twilit NYC street.

    Even if I *had* read interest, I still don't think that stating the facts of my particular and rather unusual relationship situation should be automatically construed as leading someone on. And as soon as I DID read interest (in his e-mail) I politely but firmly declined.

    Phew. Okay. Hopefully I've made things a wee bit clearer.
     
  23. freckleface

    freckleface expose the raw nerve and get on with our lives...

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    I do not see the crazy in you! You met a guy that comes to you. You talk back and forth. Both say hey lets get together some time! Great a chance to get to know someone! You made the right choice (imo) to tell him about you up front:) That way he could decide his comfort level.

    He sends you an e-mail. You let him know that you would love to met him. But just to get to know one another. Just to make sure he does not think that just because you choose this lifestyle does not mean that it is a a sex date! RIGHT? You can choose this life with out having to bang someone right away the same for a norm.

    Then he got upset (imo) because he though he was having a sex date! He was assuming this due to your life style! NOT YOUR FAULT people are stupid!

    You knew what you were doing when you called him gay though. Shit i would have too after him making assumptions.

    So in short do not let this keep you from telling someone the truth in a new conversation. Even if you met me on the street and we made plans to hang out, would be nice to know. If you are up front you do not have to worry about the other BS like why did you not tell me who you were ext ext... Some people would not even want to be friends with you. ( stupid but true )

    And i would just let it go :)
     
  24. JaneJaneJohnson

    JaneJaneJohnson New Member

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    Ok, PEOPLE.

    Can ANYONE point to a SINGLE thing apart from my saying "I am poly" that was allegedly showing sexual interest and "leading him on"????

    If not, then we need to simply disagree on whether stating factual availability is the same as extending an eager invitation.
     
  25. JaneJaneJohnson

    JaneJaneJohnson New Member

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    *sigh of relief*

    thank-you, freckleface. It was getting tiring out here all by my lonesome :p
     

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