SRS Atheist dating Muslim

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by PoliticalPirate, May 26, 2006.

  1. PoliticalPirate

    PoliticalPirate New Member

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    Just for some perspective, I live in Northern Alberta, Canada. In a booming oil town with few available women due to the rich oil-patch workers moving to the city for work. I'm a 23 year-old pale-white male, very intelligent, damn skinny, ambitous, and brutally honest.

    I 'm dating a 21 year old East Indian girl from Pakistan that I met at work while going to college, and we eventually started going out, and have been for two years. She is thin, very short, a humanitarian, hard worker, school-smart, lives with her parents and is very stubborn. Her parents do not allow her to have men in her car, to date, and want her marry another Pakistani, and do not know about me. They talk about arranging a marriage for her as well, although she can decline. As far as Muslims go, her parents are 'moderate', and she is 'barely Muslim' as I like to say. She is strong about her faith but has very little knowledge about it, and I'm often explaining her faith to her.

    The only thing I want to change in this relationship:
    1. I want to see her more often
    2. I want to have sex with her, of any type I desire
    I have taken her virginity and we have had intercourse around 5 times, however that was early on and she will no longer consent due to her renewed religious convictions. I still perfom cunnlingus on her though (I'm damn good at it too).

    Last year I was charged with growing marijauana, but I'm fighting the charges since the police obtained the search warrant fraudulently. She was completely surprised, but still stayed with me. Although she has now become much more disapproving about me drinking or getting high (which I've had to quit as part of my release condtions anyhow).

    I tried showing her why her faith in Islam is misplaced, in hopes that without her faith we could have a 'normal' dating relationship. I tried to show her that Islam was created by Arab rulers to unify and strengthen their empire in the 7th century, that there is plenty of evidence that shows that Islam is a fabricated man-made religion like Christianity, I even got her to read a book called "Why I am Not a Muslim"-by Ibn Warraq (she said the book was all lies and dismissed it, good 'ol denial). So that failed, worth the try though.

    When I fell in love with her, she told me she was willing todo anything I wanted sexually once married (I asked specific examples), but now says she will only do what Islam allows. She is also now against blowjobs as she thinks its gross. I'm not quite done researching what Islam allows, but so far:
    1. Pre-ejaculatory fluid is considered dirty and must be avoided, thus blowjobs are allowed only until that fluid starts coming out... so not very long of a blowjob.
    2. Cunnlingus is allowed only before intercourse, however once again, pre-ejaculatory fluid is to be avoided.
    3. Sperm is considered clean, but it is not to be swallowed as that wastes it, however this is contradictory reasoning seeing as...
    4. Coitous interuptus, or 'pulling out' is allowed.
    5. Titty fucking and just humping her thigh is ok
    6. You can place a finger on her anus but not insert it
    7. Anal sex is not allowed, as it is considered dirty
    8. No sex during her period (I'm willing to in the shower, or to finger her wearing a latex glove)
    9. Birth control is allowed, but only to DELAY pregnancy
    10. Vasectomies and hystromecties are forbidden
    In general Islam prohibits things that are considered 'unclean', mainly meaning bacteria, which of course makes no sense in regard to pre-ejaculatory fluid. The Quran is VERY specific that Muslim women must only marry Muslim men (while Muslim men can marry Christians, Jews and Zorostarians).

    She wants:
    1. To wait until after my court crap is over before asking her parents for permission to marry her, which if they say 'no', then its all over. Having criminal charges and being a white atheist makes me think 'no' is the likely outcome.
    2. If they say 'yes', then we are engaged for a year and then we get married and then we can have sex.
    3. Only have sex Islam allows although shes against blowjobs.
    4. Me to never eat pork, drink, or get high.
    5. To goto religious get togethers with her family.
    6. Travel to Pakistan with her to visit her relatives.
    7. She doesn't want me to have a vasectomy, and still partially wants to have one child of her own, rather than to just adopt.
    What I'm doing/want:
    1. I'm not waiting a year for the court crap to resolve, I'm asking her parents in two weeks, shes not happy about it, but I'm not waiting anymore.
    2. I got her to agree to sex during the engagment.
    3. I want sex Islam bans, shes already going against Islam by marrying an atheist, whats taking it up the ass and sucking dick compared to that?
    4. I'm not going to stop eating pork, drinking alcohol, or smoking weed, I never agreed to stop, and as long as I don't bring it up or do it around her I should be in the clear.
    5. I worked extra hard to avoid my families religious gatherings, I'm not crazy about hanging out with hers. But I have to make some compromises so this will be one of em I'm guessing. (I don't even celebrate Christamas or birthdays either, although we celebrate her b-day)
    6. I don't want to goto Pakistan, we could be killed because of our marriage, so either I prove its too dangerous or go there heavily armed.
    7. I want a vasectomy and to only adopt children.
    She is very kind to me, doesn't like fighting or yelling and gets really sad if she thinks I'm mad at her (which I'm usually not but she always thinks I am). I'm not romantic at all, I do not spend money on her as I beleive that 'affection' is all that two lovers need, she on the other hand is not affectionate. She has NEVER started to kiss me or hug me first, she only reciprocates, she doesn't even hug or kiss her parents. She also loves to talk on the phone, and after two years of talking almost every day for 1-4 hours (2.5 average) we've run out of things to discuss, she insists on talking though.

    I'm planning to be unusually romanitic in the week before asking her parents, in order to help calm her nerves (shes stressed out about me asking her parents). I have lots of free time but not much spare $$$ so any ideas would be great. Mainly she wants something to remember be by, if I died or if her parents say 'no'. I've never given her flowers and she goes on about them often, so I was thinking of preserving a single rose and placing it in a glass vase. Although I'm asking for her parents permission to marry, I will be proposing to her AFTER we've had sex and I'm certain that I can promise to be with her for the rest of our life together. I take promises seriously so I havn't given her my word yet since I need to know how we -click- sexually. During intercourse that we did have, she just laid there and it was painful for her since I'm too well endowed for the size of her uterus, kind of silly to marry someone who sex will always be painful for. I've read that women adjust to the size of their partner, so hopefully that happens.

    I'm just hoping someone has some good advice for my situation.:sadwavey:
     
  2. Isaac

    Isaac New Member

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    Wow, dude. Good luck with that shit.

    My suggestion for those of meager means: Flowers and picnic in the park. That's about as simply romantic as it gets. Hell, you might even write her a poem.

    I'm kinda wondering what your draw is to this chick. Lack of affection would freak me out. It'd be like dating a dude.

    Then again, you seem pretty pushy with sex, so what the hell would she want to be with you for? I'd lay off the fixation with rear ending her if you really love her that much.
     
  3. scaryice

    scaryice New Member

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    I don't think you would be happy getting married to her. You can't really change people, you're better off finding one who already has all the things you want. And there's 3 billion women in the world, so it's not like you couldn't fall in love with someone else.
     
  4. Darketernal

    Darketernal Watch: Aria The Origination =)

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    You will have to lie against who you really are in order to be with her. In then end it comes all down to this. You will be a traitor of everything that you stand for and believe in,just to be with this woman. Wether what you do in life is right or wrong isn't the issue, what happens is that someone is offering you a piece of candy if you sign this contract with the Devil.

    You will be worshipping a meteorite for the rest of your life, you will follow the false teaching of the Koran which where merely copied from the Old-Testament, and that of a war maniac who's followers brought down the world trade center killing thousands of people to this day in all their violence while screaming that their religion was one of peace. Any woman should be happy to give you a blow job rather then to follow that dirty religion.
     
  5. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    I have some comments of relevance I will post once I sleep some... I just want to say that number 3 in your list made me laugh out loud.
     
  6. Aeternitatis

    Aeternitatis New Member

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    To be honest, she sounds pretty self-serving to me, more like she wants to string you along than anything else (eg. her "renewed religious convictions" mean no sex anymore, but she doesn't mind still getting off). It's also a little convenient that she's willing to marry an atheist, so long as he acts like a Muslim for her family. Seems sort of like classic "pick and choose". I suspect you're into a bad thing there. :hs:
     
  7. PoliticalPirate

    PoliticalPirate New Member

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    Well in Pakistan it is not normal to show affection, and she has assured me that once were married that she will be. I'm big on affection, so its very odd I ended up in this relationship, but its a compromise I've made so far.


    Due to my court crap I'm stuck here for at least a year, and it is very hard to find attactive women here, there are loads of guys that make over 100,000 a year and are better looking than me but are married to a fat ugly skank; I'm lucky I have a girlfriend, she actually has on average four other men trying to steal her away from me, taking her on dates and spending money on her! I'm not the jealous type so this isn't a concern.


    Oh she is, but I have some selfish sexual desires that I refuse to compromise on, and I think that we are all self-serving at our core.


    I simply start eating her out, she never asks for it. I like doing it mainly because she rubs her hands in my hair while I eat her out, pretty much the only affection she shows me other than holding my hand.



    Marriage in Islam has the male providing a dowery to the woman which she keeps for herself, the man provides for the family, and any money the woman makes on her own she keeps for herself. In divorce the woman keeps her own possesions, gifts and the dowery. We agreed to no dowery, and that certain expenses will be shared (food, rent, furniture), but in general our money is our own. She also agreed to a pre-nuptial agreement.



    Mainly so that her family approves of me, which she really wants them todo, even though its really unlikely. My sister is a stripper, and even though that has nothing todo with me, that will work against me because in their culture it matters.

    I feel I may have shown her in a too negaitive light, I genuinly love her, and other than her views tide to her religion, we have very similar values. Our marriage is only going to be a civil union under Canadian law; no mosque would get involved since our marriage is forbidden. That's a huge sacrafice she is making to be with me since she grew up dreaming about her perfect wedding which will now only have a reception. Not to mention that if her parents agree to the marriage, that doesn't mean they will be happy with her, let alone her other relatives and the other Muslims in the community here. So I hope you understand that she really wants to be with me and is making sacrafices, as I have as well. I'm not the type of guy that would date without sex normally, two years of 'blue-balls' is no picnic, especially when you have a beautiful girlfriend with the tighest cunt on the planet. I mean two fingers wide (1.25") hurts her! (1.75" vertical)


    The picnic idea is very good Issac, she loves strawberries on cheescake so I'll bring that along.
     
  8. PukeyCute

    PukeyCute New Member

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    This makes me terribly, terribly glad that I'm dating a guy that actually has an iota of respect for my reservations and personal beliefs.

    At the core of it, you're trying to convince her that she should change the faith she's comfortable with, not for the sake of it, but because it is preventing you from having sex with her. Either you want to stick your pee-pee in her hoo-hoo, or you're coming off far worse than you had intended.

    Either way, you need to have a good, long look at how much you "love" her, and see if "love" can be just as easily replaced by "lust."
     
  9. xeo

    xeo New Member

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    I agree with PukeyCute, couldn't have said it better myself.

    This thread makes me sick.
     
  10. Cthalupa

    Cthalupa New Member

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    Seems to me you're both being selfish, and that the relationship won't work.

    She should have ended it when she renewed faith in her religion, and realized that her new priorities didn't coincide with yours.

    You should have ended it when you decided to try and start forcing her into changing back.


    You can't force someone to change, and nothing good will come of trying to. She may be a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to the oral sex thing, ignoring Islamic law in that regard, and wanting to follow it when it comes to performing oral on you. No one's perfect, and we all have flaws, but you can't use someone else's as a justification to try and force them to be someone they're not.
     
  11. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    In regards to the haters: He's not being a selfish prick. He's just trying to work out a relationship so that it works for two very different people. Is that how you people conduct relationships? With no flexibility? Your way or the highway? Well good luck with that. Because your relationships will never work. You'll only be able to be with people exactly like you (boring), or that are weak or have no sense of identity and will bend to your will. After all, its HER that changed her beliefs mid-relationship and he is just trying to cope.

    1. Kids: This is a basica deal breaker. Either you are willing to have them, or not. She will not change her mind. Either agree, or move on.

    2. Sex: If you find that you are becoming so sexually frustrated that you resent her and are unhappy, then she needs to compromise. Within reason. Otherwise your needs aren't being met and its time to move on. Doesn't mean she's a bad person, just means the relationship wasn't working.

    3. Drugs/Alcohol: Nothing wrong with her wanting you to quit drugs and alcohol. The fact that you do drugs makes you... not marriage material. Think about it. There's a reason why 30 year olds who still do drugs are always sad characters. If you want to commit to her then it is time to grow up. We're talking about marriage here.

    4. Pork: Not a big sacrifice to make.

    5. Her Family: First of all, if you make her choose her family or you then she will choose them. That much is clear. That means if they approve of you, then you will have to attend family events. Her family is very important to her. If you can't compromise here, then move on.

    6. Pakistan isn't THAT dangerous. Its not unreasonable for her to insist that you travel with her. Use this as a way to get anal sex ;)

    In general, being in a relationship with someone that is deeply religious, or from a culture where women are controlled by their families is extremely difficult. I wish you luck.
     
  12. PukeyCute

    PukeyCute New Member

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    "Haters?" Where the hell did you get "LOL INFLEXIBLE" from? Oh, wait. mod notice: Show some love :hsd:

    PoliticalPirate is not some innocent victim cruelly being denied sex by a bitch who has him on a short leash -- he's a normal guy that's suddenly being denied something he feels he's entitled to because "he got it in the beginniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing."

    Religion is viewed differently by different people. He thinks it's easy because he's an atheist; he believes in nothing, and also believes that everybody else should as well. She is not as "barely Muslim" as he's categorized her as, or at least, she's trying very hard not to be "barely Muslim." He may take religion lightly, but she does not and will not until she figures out exactly where her priorities lie. His nagging and prodding and cajoling won't "speed her along." Her consenting to doing certain things looks like an awkward, ill-conceived attempt at a compromise. It's you who sees in terms of black and white.

    The girl is warring with her religious beliefs, you fucking genius. Why else would she have had sex with this shmuck, allowing him to take away her virginity (which renders her unsuitable to a lot of traditionally Islamic men -- tell me something, do you grasp the concept of (I'll spell it REALLY slowly for you) r-e-s-e-a-r-c-h or t-h-o-u-g-h-t?) and perform various acts on him that are deemed unclean by Islamic law? Craving approval would be a good answer -- but that just makes her emotionally weak, not consciously bitchy and manipulative. As you're so eager to open your foghorn of a mouth without bothering to read or even understand what you have read, I'd love to hear the alternatives I'm sure you'll regurgitate from a "LOL GURLS SUCK" site!

    mod notice PukeyCute, i know your new, so this time i wont enforce any rules on you but a mere warning. Remember the Asylum is an emotional hide-out.:hsd:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2006
  13. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    Wow. I'm a little taken aback. Bitter much?
     
  14. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    Actually, I'm only 11. Not 12. I'm a child prodigy. And masturbating in my own drivel is a perfectly normal thing for a boy my age with limited access to lubricants to do. Try to have some compassion about this unfortunate situation.

    Yes she is struggling with her religious convictions. And yes, some of these are about sexuality. Sexuality is a part of an adult relationship. In fact, sexual desire and love/affection have a biologically mediated symbiotic relationship: when love and affection is experienced, sexual desire builds and creates anxiety. This is relieved through sex, which increases affection. If being with her means that he experiences constant anxiety to the point that he is unhappy, because he is sexually frustrated, then his needs are not being met. And the relationship is not working for him.

    This applies to other areas of the relationship as well. At issue is whether her religious convictions make them incompatible. Its not complicated. Either they can both compromise, or they can't be together. Compromise does not mean "he abides exactly by her religion's rules."

    Adult relationships (and in this case marriage) are about communication and compromise. They have to create a space for themselves that satisfies both their needs, emotional, spiritual, sexual and financial. If they can't, then they are not compatible and their relationship doesn't work. Rigidity, religious or otherwise, dooms relationships between dissimilar people. Which is why this one is going to be so hard to work out.

    You responded to this thread with hostility. When I pointed this out, your response was one of extreme anger. Pardon me for inferring that you are experiencing "mis-directed anger." Would you care to talk about what it is that happened to you that made you so predisposed to reacting with such hostility? It might help if you get it out.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2006
  15. HyPE

    HyPE ::OTTC Crew #2839::

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    so you're from Ft McMurray eh? thats where I am right now, workin at site. oh and im Muslim too :hsugh:

    cant say i can help with your situation, but i didnt know that about our religion :eek3:
     
  16. i94tex

    i94tex New Member

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    Sounds to me as though she is more Muslim than you "barely" think.

    My take on it : In the beginning she was out for a bit of fun and adventure. Rebelling against her faith, culture and parents. Now that the relationship is in two years, she has settled down and is back to the way she will always be.

    It sounds as though there are some fundimental things that you two don't agree on and those are the things that will come between you in the end. (if the parents don't approve or like you, your finished)

    You say there are other men dating and spending money on her and you aren't the jealous type. You may not be but when a lady wants to marry a man she doesn't date other men.

    You sound as though you are trying to change her "strong faith". Keep in mind there are fundimental things about a person that can't be changed.

    IMHO..... you are only 23, both have vastly different cultural backgrounds, your sexual desires don't mesh (and the fact she hides you from her parents; you said you have been dating two years and her parents don't know about you).................... run like hell.
     
  17. flowers

    flowers New Member

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    marring a muslim girl means marring her family.......!
    going to pakistan,giving up smoking,having the kind of sex she allows.shes religious ur atheist!
    until and unless u and she r ready to do ne thing 4eachother ...things have a slim slim chance of workin out.(kids r gona turn out 2 be sooo confused)

    but do post back bout the outcome.....i would like to no how things work out.!

    good luck
     
  18. PoliticalPirate

    PoliticalPirate New Member

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    I view her religion as knowledge that she beleives to be true, much like people once held that the Earth was flat. I think informing someone about something you believe they are mistaken about is a personal responsibility. I do not think it is disrespectful to want someone to think or do something different. How you go about it can be disrespectful though, and I only ever discussed religion in depth with her over 3 months while she read a book I asked her to read.


    Obviously if all I wanted and cared about was sex/lust I'd have moved on long ago. I love her and want to be with her.

    I think I will beable to get her to agree to me having a vasectomy and only adopting children. I've started to show her the bad side of pregnancy, and how important it is to not bring more mouths to feed into this world when there are so many without parents.

    I am very frustrated and my behaviour is influenced by that, but I'm not taking it out on her excessively. But I've communicated this aspect to her and she doesn't beleive me, I think she just doesn't grasp that male sex drive due to our testosterone... although she'll know eventually because I want her to take it here and there to get her super aroused, can't do it too often, don't want her growing a penis!:mamoru:

    My view on relationships is that people should stay together as long as they both want to. I think marriage is unecessary, and a waste of money. Us getting married is a compromise I'm making for her, which she agreed to have all the sex I wanted once engaged. Which she is now trying to welch on.

    Her religion doesn't count our marriage anyhow and all the sex we have is the same as out of wedlock. In the Quran it states all disbeleiving men AND their wives goto hell for eternity, thus why Muslim women are forbidden to marry atheists. She ignores this fact from the Quran, as she picks and chooses what she believes on a case by case basis, illogical and frustrating.

    But I love pepperoni! Especially while stoned.

    Well its more about what is most likely the truth, what collective human knowledge has determined to be true. All my values are based in the scientific method and logic.

    She is just trying to be friends with them, but they want more. If she met someone else that she wanted to be with more than me, I'd be happy for her, and naturally sad about losing her. This isn't an issue at all to me, but the typical guy would be furious if they knew other men were trying to steal their girlfriend.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2006
  19. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    You really don't sound like you are anywhere near ready for marriage. Marrying her would be a complete disaster.
     
  20. PoliticalPirate

    PoliticalPirate New Member

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    Can you be more specific as to why?
     
  21. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    I can. Unfortunately I am experiencing the aftermath of 'coital cephalalgia' and it hurts to think right now. You wanna hear about real pain, google that term...
     
  22. HatSee

    HatSee Active Member

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    It wont work.

    I've worked with people from that area before and when your family arranges a marriage for you, you have to take it, to not take it would be very disrespectful and would get you disowned. I had that explained to me by many indian/pakistani people.

    Also attacking her religion in an attempt to get her to fuck you is very shallow. It is her beliefs, you should not try and mold her into something that you want, but rather take her for who she is. And that seems to be a muslim, who will probably get disowned if her parents find out about you.

    Good luck, but my advice is to give up. :dunno:
     
  23. PoliticalPirate

    PoliticalPirate New Member

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    Her parents will let her marry whom shes wishes... however we don't know if that includes atheists. Her mom does want her to marry a Pakistani but does say she is allowed to marry a white person. Nonetheless, there are no white Muslims here so its plausabile they will say 'yes', since white and non-muslim goes hand in hand here.

    Religion is not a sacred cow that you aren't allowed to talk about, grow up. Sex is why people date, if sex were not the point very few people would enter into financial contracts where they other person gets 1/2 their shit. When it comes to marriage I think it is a requirement to talk about it at least, especially since I'm atheist and do not beleive in souls, karma, heaven or hell.

    I should mention she wants the children to be raised Muslim only, I agreed that she can take them to the mosque all she wants, but in the end its their choice what to beleive (which she doesn't think it is), and that its not respectful to not allow me to share my views with my own children.

    We both want to be together very much, and even if I gave up, she wouldn't.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2006
  24. Toasty

    Toasty Naked people have little or no influence on societ

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    From my personal observations, I've seen relationships fail mainly because of one of 3 things...money, sex, or religion.

    It sounds like you're already having issues with 2 of them.
     
  25. teo

    teo . => ? => !

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    Eh?
    From what you've mentioned, it seems that she doesn't get much of a chance to speak up about what she really feels. Girls that 'go on' about flowers and such are usually unrealistic, or stifled. It sounds like she might be the latter. What I wonder is whether she stays with you because she thinks that she can't find better elsewhere and chooses to live with your dictums instead of finding someone more in tune with her emotional plane. I'm not trying to cast aspersions on you here, only put myself in her shoes with past boyfriends of my own. I remember feeling like I couldn't talk about particular subjects because they simply wouldn't understand where I was coming from. The guys that were more like you were completely blindsided when I broke things off because they couldn't fathom where they'd gone wrong. You might want to watch out in case the same thing happens to you.
     

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