GUN Army vs. Marines: Next Generation Ammo

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by ChipOnShoulder, Aug 20, 2009.

  1. ChipOnShoulder

    ChipOnShoulder New Member

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    Stolen from Lightfighter and Dr. Gary Roberts.

    http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7206084761/m/60210131/p/1

    The Army is going to be replacing green tip M855 with some gay ass "enviromentally friendly" ammunition, despite the fact there hasn't been any conclusive proof that lead alloy cores in projectiles is causing lead pollution more than the lead salts from modern non-corrosive primers. Just for reference, civilian shooters who get lead poisoning get it from the primers and aerosolized lead salts in the air, not from fired rounds...

    The new M855 LFS round has had issues with unreliable external ballistics due to the lead replacement core melting, and no consideration was given at all to terminal ballistics: Lose - Lose.

    http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/08/army_green_bullet_080809w/

    The Marine Corps was considering the lead free M855, but apparently is thinking about large scale adoption of the recently revealed Mk 318 projectile that was designed by ATK/Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center for the FN SCAR/Mk 16. The Mk-318 was designed both with external ballistics and terminal ballistics in mind: Win-Win. It looked like it was only going to be fielded in relatively small numbers with the SCAR, but if the Marines pick it up, that would be sweet.

    Page 16 of the following presentation begins discussion and detailed review of the Mk 318/SOST cartridge.

    http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2009infantrysmallarms/tuesdaysessioniii8524.pdf

    Cliff Notes: Army is going to moving forward with bullets designed to appease hippies that melt, Marines are considering bullets designed by SOCOM to kill.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2009
  2. That could be a good thing, if they're using different ammo it could ease up on the demand for the standard ammo we use.
     
  3. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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    A bullet affected by hot weather? Sounds perfect for the middle east!
     
  4. ChipOnShoulder

    ChipOnShoulder New Member

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl:

    You'd figure the geniuses they have working at the Army would've figured this out sooner.
     
  5. Jurisbot Esq.

    Jurisbot Esq. Don't blame me I voted for Ron Paul. OT Supporter

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    but the Senator's son works at the place making the melting bullet. :ugh:

    Can't let him be out of a job
     
  6. you know me

    you know me OT where the douchbags play

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    middle east and african deploys...hey I got a great idea.....
     
  7. 90free400e

    90free400e New Member

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    haha how true
     
  8. LancerV

    LancerV Something Happened OT Supporter

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    You realize there not just moving away from the steel core because of environment :hsugh:
    Its a tungsten core so the penetration it will against armored targets will be 10x the amount of the shitty steel core. It will penetrate 3/8steel out to 350meteres and conceretre masonry out to 150m (Steel core wouldnt even do this)

    http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2009infantrysmallarms/tuesdaysessioniiGrassano.pdf
     
  9. LancerV

    LancerV Something Happened OT Supporter

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    Sounds like bullshit tungsten has a melting point of 6000degress
     
  10. smartypants

    smartypants New Member

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    new fudge-based round deforms in heat
     
  11. ChipOnShoulder

    ChipOnShoulder New Member

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    bismuth is the suspect element
     
  12. Scrooge McDuck

    Scrooge McDuck OT Supporter

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    i dont really care what bullet they give us as long as when i shoot people they die as quick as possible
     
  13. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    good god. :rofl: why the fuck do people care how bullets affect the environment more than how bullets affect people :hsughno:
     
  14. ChipOnShoulder

    ChipOnShoulder New Member

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    Politics.

    The Army is a big organization, there is bound to be more politics involved. Damn shame they didn't put more thought into terminal ballistics.

    Would be very interesting if the Marines adopted the Mk-318 en masse. Infantry grunts getting match grade accurate (well, ~1 moa), barrier blind ammo = awesome.
     
  15. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    i suppose thats a good way to look at it
     
  16. Cannondale

    Cannondale OT Supporter

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    How stupid is that? :rofl:
     
  17. Scrooge McDuck

    Scrooge McDuck OT Supporter

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    When i was at SOI infantry training the instructors told us that if we ever get white phosphorus smoke grenades (which burn at 4000 degrees) that we aren't allowed to use them against people since that has been deemed inhumane. Five minutes later they told us that they did it all the time and then wrote it off as "oops i didnt mean to burn those guys alive, i meant to shoot a grenade in there as a warning shot"
     
  18. ChipOnShoulder

    ChipOnShoulder New Member

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    LOL,

    Don't get how that matter to the discussion, but it's a good story none the less! :bigthumb:
     
  19. Scrooge McDuck

    Scrooge McDuck OT Supporter

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    haha it doesnt i just remembered it and though someone might enjoy it :bigthumb:
     
  20. apman0000

    apman0000 OT Supporter

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    why do they want to puss-ify the military so much. give em the baddest equipment possible who gives a shit about environmental concerns, and let em go over and kick ass and bring em home.
     
  21. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    :ugh: dont you know? our military is supposed to help nation build, and act like a peace corp/UN/hippie shit organization towards other countries - not be fucking blood thirsty killers looking to win a war.
     
  22. LancerV

    LancerV Something Happened OT Supporter

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    This is suppose to penetrate armor better than the old M855 by 10fold
     
  23. lump

    lump New Member

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    they will mass produce billions and billions of them before sending them out for combat use, in the first week will have countless failures and be forced to send them all back to the US for sporting ammo. They will replace there flubbed ammo with heat seeking explosive radioactive 10mm equivalent bullets and sell us the melty ones for fractions of a penny.
     
  24. ChipOnShoulder

    ChipOnShoulder New Member

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    Don't think that the original M855's biggest problem was lack of barrier penetration capability though, it's not like insurgents are sporting armor that can defeat M855 these days. While armor penetration is a positive, the driving force behind the M855 LFS (Lead Free Slug) is primarily the "Lead Free" part.

    Would have helped the SEALs in Panama in the Patilla incident though (http://www.specwarnet.net/miscinfo/patilla.htm)
     
  25. LancerV

    LancerV Something Happened OT Supporter

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    Shooting through walls is beneficial
     

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