GUN Argument with my wife

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Buzz Killington, Dec 5, 2008.

  1. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington nunc fortunatus sum

    Joined:
    May 6, 2001
    Messages:
    147,910
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    The Residency, Lucknow
    My wife was listening to a local radio show the other day (the Mike O'Meara Show for you DC people) and apparentlly the subject of self-defense in one's home came up.

    Apparently a cop (or someone IDing themselves as a cop) called in and said you should never shoot to kill in a self-defense situation, but that you should keep shooting until the person is incapacitated, no matter how many shots it takes.

    As you can imagine, when this was recounted to me at home that evening it triggered a rather warm discussion :o
     
  2. stapleremover

    stapleremover New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    12,706
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Midwest
  3. david_4x4

    david_4x4 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,468
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    So you then tied her up and beat the shit out of her; proceded to rape every hole just to make sure your point got across of "kill, kill, kill"?
     
  4. Strictly speaking, you shoot to remove the threat. It just so happens that the best places to shoot people in order to remove the threat are the places that kill them.
     
  5. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2003
    Messages:
    9,041
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Illinois
    That sounds pretty much correct to me. Your job isn't to kill or execute the attacker, just make him stop. You shoot him until he stops attacking you. You wouldn't tell a jury that you were trying to kill him would you?
     
  6. Calhoun Burns

    Calhoun Burns ...and the gunslinger followed.

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Yes. I had a former police chief tell me essentially the same thing at the range once - shoot to stop the threat. If you end up killing them in the process that's just a byproduct of your primary goal.
     
  7. Anders 7

    Anders 7 I aim to misbehave OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2003
    Messages:
    23,359
    Likes Received:
    0
    /thread
     
  8. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,852
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ventura California
    Shoot till you stop the threat. If you were a criminal you would not like my definition of stop.
     
  9. dpixel8

    dpixel8 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2001
    Messages:
    48,450
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    WI Go Bucky!!!!!!!
    Officer: "why did you shoot 10 times?"

    Me: "wasn't anymore bullets in the magazine"
     
  10. dpixel8

    dpixel8 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2001
    Messages:
    48,450
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    WI Go Bucky!!!!!!!


    I had 2 of my LEO friends tell me not only that but basically (paraphrasing) "you'd rather be sued by the family of the guy that was threatening your life/home than himself" :mamoru:
     
  11. kellyclan

    kellyclan She only loves you when she's drunk.

    Joined:
    May 16, 2001
    Messages:
    18,944
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just removing words that can be used to demonize lethal force options being permitted to non-LEO/Mil.

    "Shoot to kill" sounds like you're Paul Kersey.

    "Shoot to stop a threat" makes you more the victim, and is harder to argue with.
     
  12. LancerV

    LancerV Something Happened OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    49,895
    Likes Received:
    76
    Officer:"Good grouping though"
     
  13. johan

    johan Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sahasrara; magnetic violet infinite
    MF .

    Shoot to stop. Shoot to protect lives. Period. Amount of damage is secondary.

    There is no "shoot to wound" scenario. Too much tv/movies has got ppl believing you can/should shoot them "gently" in the shoulder or leg.

    Preposterous.

    If you're justified in shooting, then shoot. No such thing as shoot them gently.
     
  14. kellyclan

    kellyclan She only loves you when she's drunk.

    Joined:
    May 16, 2001
    Messages:
    18,944
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm still a little lost as to the purpose of this thread, because from what you said, the caller agrees with all of us.
     
  15. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2002
    Messages:
    124,632
    Likes Received:
    741
    Location:
    Your mother.
    God she Must hate arguing with a wind bag lawyer
     
  16. dpixel8

    dpixel8 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2001
    Messages:
    48,450
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    WI Go Bucky!!!!!!!

    :bowrofl:
     
  17. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington nunc fortunatus sum

    Joined:
    May 6, 2001
    Messages:
    147,910
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    The Residency, Lucknow
    If someone comes into my house, I'm shooting them in order to kill them.

    I am not shooting them in order to incapacitate them.
     
  18. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington nunc fortunatus sum

    Joined:
    May 6, 2001
    Messages:
    147,910
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    The Residency, Lucknow
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2003
    Messages:
    9,041
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Illinois
    Wow wrong answer.
     
  20. Yeah. He should tell that to the grand jury.
     
  21. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2002
    Messages:
    124,632
    Likes Received:
    741
    Location:
    Your mother.
    I can see a conversation now:

    Wife: "I don't think that is right"
    Buzz: "I WOULD LIKE A CITE PLEASE"
    Wife: "What are you talking about"
    Buzz: "I OBJECT"
     
  22. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington nunc fortunatus sum

    Joined:
    May 6, 2001
    Messages:
    147,910
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    The Residency, Lucknow
    So when you use a gun on someone, you do so pursuant to the "use of incapacitation force" principles?
     
  23. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington nunc fortunatus sum

    Joined:
    May 6, 2001
    Messages:
    147,910
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    The Residency, Lucknow
    "The rule may be briefly stated thus: If the accused is in no fault whatever, but in the discharge of a lawful act, he need not retreat, but may repel force by force, if need be, to the extent of slaying his adversary. This is justifiable homicide in self-defense."

    What's the surest way of repelling force? A shot that is intended to kill someone who is threatening your life.
     
  24. The idea of use of deadly force is that you are allowed to use force that can result in death. The force is the means to an end. The end is to prevent imminent and grave harm. You seem to believe the end is to kill. In fact, killing is but a possible outcome of the use of the stated means to the stated end. I don't think you would find a single self defense expert who would tell you the primary goal of using your weapon is to kill.
     
  25. Is this so hard to get? The shot is intended to stop someone who is threatening your life.
     

Share This Page