SRS Are things like this considered possessive/controlling?

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by ZeeMox, Jan 10, 2005.

  1. ZeeMox

    ZeeMox Opinions are like assholes. Fuck em. OT Supporter

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    My gf and I are opposites in lots of ways, and while I almost always go after serious relationships, this is her first, so some of these things annoy her. I consider them pretty normal by now... Just curious for opinions if these fit the possessive or controlling categories to most people.

    1) I like to have a general idea of where she is. It's not particularly that I care who she hangs out with, and I really don't care what she's doing, I don't think she's going to cheat on me. However, she's not a very good driver, and I like to know that she's most likely safe. If I have NO idea where she is, I worry - just a thing with me. It's just comforting to be able to think about her, and know that she's probably at work/hanging out with friends/something at that time. Again, I don't want her schedule, just a general idea so I know she's safe.

    2) There are certain guys we've had problems with in the past that I don't like her hanging out with. It's not her I don't trust - it's them. There are only about three of them, but each of them has caused us serious trouble at times, or had stalker-like tendencies. One of them actually has serious mental problems. I don't think it's particularly possessive for me to not appreciate my girlfriend hanging out with some guy that stalked her for a long time while she was with me. She tends to be overly-friendly, which is to say that she doesn't notice dangerous signals of instability.

    Also, keep in mind I never tell her she's not allowed to do anything. I don't pretend that I can control her, but I am blunt and say that if she does one of the above things, it will probably cause problems for us. I generally just hope she'll respect my wishes - I won't resort to force. Anyway, last one:

    3) I never set out to change her, but there are some things I make it clear are going to kill the relationship if they keep happening. For instance, she used to drink WAY, way too much - and she'd be completely submissive to anything when wasted. Before we even started dating, I expressed disappointment in that and she stopped. She also used to be very overly-touchy with guys, and I didn't realize this until after we were dating. It became too hard to watch all the time, and I told her I just couldn't deal with it. Again, I use no force - but I make it clear it's not going to work if this keeps happening. I don't think it's at all "controlling" for me to express that I can't continue in the relationship if there are certain really bad habits I won't be able to live with.

    Some of these things bother her because before me she always had very casual relationships and a casual lifestyle - living for the moment, not thinking too much about the future. She respects most of my wishes because she loves me and I know this, and I in turn do the same for her, but there a lot of things she doesn't get because she just isn't the same personality type. For instance, she thinks that I'm setting out to change who she is with number 3, when I make it perfectly clear that she has the option to leave - but I can't go on in the relationship without a certain change. There are other examples, but you probably get the idea.

    But I haven't ruled out that she could be right, and I'm just not seeing it. So would you consider these things either possessive or controlling? Would also appreciate advice on how to help her understand, if you agree.
     
  2. JordanClarkson

    JordanClarkson OT Supporter

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    I was in the same position. I hoped for her to mature but she never did. I also told her what bothered me but she'd only hide it not change it.

    What I should've done from the beginning was not be so serious. I know now that I would've enjoyed being with her a lot more. Even if it meant having to deal with things that hurt me, if it got too much for me to handle I could leave myself and probably would have and on better terms but instead, I focused all of my energy on trying to "educate" her on what a serious relationship should be like when her heart was never in it.

    Consequently I don't take relationships seriously anymore and I'm a much happier person because of that. You are not in the wrong, but neither is she. However, do you really want to deal with these negative feelings anymore than you should? I have 7 years of built up resentment that I didn't really need to have and that was caused more by me than her. The first step is to not care so damn much. Stop worrying about if she's going to be ok or not. It's her own life and if she gets hurt, it's still her life. This is the first thing I did when I broke up with my ex and it helped me a lot to get over it quickly. And only then did I realize my mistakes
     
  3. tripolarproduce

    tripolarproduce New Member

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    letting go is hard but worth it in the end. if shit's going to happen it will happen, trying to force it ain't gonna do nothing but make it harder (no pun intended.) the hardest part is following my own advice
     
  4. In all honesty, if you're going to enter a serious relationship with someone - and they make it clear that they don't like what you're doing or saying, regardless of whether you think it's justified, then you're on the wrong road when you keep pushing the issue. If you talk openly about it in a dialogue, and she decides that she doesn't want to listen to you - even if you think you're making sense - then letting her go is the most loving thing you can do. She's her own person, and she'll take her own risks for a lifetime, just like all human beings.

    You don't have to accept the unacceptable, but you also can't sit on the fence one day - go to the left the next, and then go to the right the next.

    2 Solid choices:

    1: Accept her as she is, and respect her choices even if you wouldn't choose them if you had the power; and stay with her.
    2: Not accept her choices or how she is and end the relationship.

    There is no fence sitting on this issue. If you fence sit, you're doomed.

    Acceptance or Non Acceptance:

    Not accepting, but staying in the relationship and trying to continue to find ways to get her to change: That's the road to suffering and an unhealthy relationship.

    Not accepting, but leaving the relationship respectfully: That's the road to peace, and to a healthy relationship with yourself, and hopefully a future partner.

    Accepting, but staying in the relationship without trying to continue to find ways to get her to change: That's the road to peace for you, towards allowing you to have a healthy relationship. It doesn't guarantee that the other person will be healthy or even safe, but it does mean you will be.

    The most dangerous and most comment choice:

    Accepting, but not really accepting and staying in the relationship: That's the road to suffering, and turmoil. This is the fence sitter. He accepts, doesn't accept, accepts, doesn't accept - and he can't make a decisive decision and thus the relationship falls into turmoil. Avoid this at all cost. You're better off not accepting the behavior and leaving the relationship than sitting around wondering whether you're doing what's right or not. If you don't know whether you're doing the right thing or not - then the answer is simple, you're not.

    Conclusion: In the end, it's not about being right or wrong, it's about making choices that you have power over, and accentuating what you can control, and letting go of the things you can't. It's about focusing on yourself, and being clear with your boundries. Setting limits on what you feel is acceptable is ok, and it helps you to know where to draw the line, but it doesn't mean others will respect or even feel that your boundry is appropriate.

    It's about respecting individuality, and accepting the fact that you can't will people to be something or choose something simply because it's what you'd have them be or do. If you're in a romantic relationship, and you ask someone to stop behaving a certain way, saying certain things, or doing certain things - and they don't want to, then anything you say or do which proceeds is either hurtful or helpful based on the choices I've layed out.

    People aren't going to change unless they choose to. So, if she's not going to change, are you? It's your only chance. You now have a choice.
     
  5. Emfuser

    Emfuser Nuclear Moderator Super Moderator

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    On Topic --> Asylum

    :)
     
  6. ZeeMox

    ZeeMox Opinions are like assholes. Fuck em. OT Supporter

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    Thanks for the help, all. I really don't intend to break up with her - I must have stressed that too much. I actually just wanted to know if I was being possessive or controlling by having these preferences and styles.

    Which is another reason I wouldn't particularly prefer this in the asylum... but ok.

    Also, like I said - she's willing to change, she just says things when we fight or things get heated that keep hinting towards the idea that she feels caged. Now matter how much I try to explain myself - we've even had counselling - it doesn't seem to work. After the counselling I really thought she understood, but something must have been missed. I dunno. Plus, I'm not as social a person as her, and she hasn't been in my place. There are a lot of things she never did understand until she got there herself.

    But no, I really don't intend to leave her. I'd consider that running away - I want to do EVERYTHING I can to just fix this.
     
  7. dave steel

    dave steel My Kung Fu is the best.

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    ZeeMox, I hope that you don't end up marrying this girl. I can see her as being very high maintenance.
     
  8. JordanClarkson

    JordanClarkson OT Supporter

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    show her the ladder theory webpage. it worked for another member's gf. don't ask for her to change. you're going to regret it later because she will blame you for not having a social life. in fact she probably does that now. she needs to learn on her own. some people really aren't meant to have serious relationships. the people who do often get paired up with the opposite. it's a way for both of you to work out your issues.
     
  9. ZeeMox

    ZeeMox Opinions are like assholes. Fuck em. OT Supporter

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    I actually don't mind maintaining her, as long as she keeps loving me back. I'm just worried she'll get frustrated to the point of giving up.
     
  10. ZeeMox

    ZeeMox Opinions are like assholes. Fuck em. OT Supporter

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    She's seen it, I don't think it made any huge impact. And no, she doesn't blame me, but she does tend to accuse me of not wanting her to hang out with her friends, which is a little off. One example of things that prompt that is number 2. Another example is when she plans things with her friends right over things she had planned with me, using "we always hang out" as an excuse. I don't mind her making plans over us "just hanging out" like always, but it bothers me when we actually PLANNED something out and things change.

    Also, her best friend hates me. Worse, she recently admitted to being bi-sexual and wanting to do shit with my gf. My penis says yes to this, but my brain notices that this is why this chick has been hating me all this time. Also, I get the feeling she's saying stuff to my gf, because we have some kind of fight or strange problem EVERY time she hangs out with this chick. Example: Last time, and this is really fucked up - she had a drink (just one, mixed, I don't think it even got her tipsy) and then took Ambien (a prescription sleep aid that REALLY FUCKS YOU UP) - for no apparent reason. This almost destroyed our relationship on the spot, because she went very emotionally out of whack, completely changed personalities and disappeared for several hours. The next day she didn't remember much of what she said, and admitted that she took the drug.

    Worse, she knew what it did - her mother used to take it. She took a high dosage, and my doctor even prescribed it to me for insomnia and my gf told me not to take it. ALL before she took it one day for no reason. This is the kind of stuff that happens when she hangs out with that friend. The only good side is that the bisexual thing kind of freaked my gf out, and she's avoiding her now.
     
  11. Juvenall

    Juvenall What Would Juvie Do?

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    What it all really comes down to is how long you two have been together. If it's anything less then say, 6 months, yeah, these things seem really petty and almost childish (not trying to be rude, so please don't take offence).

    It's one thing to care. That in itself is fine. However, this because a problem if you become upset if she's not checking in or isn't telling you exactly where she's at. It's one thing to ask her "What are you doing tonight?" and another all together to say something like "Where are you going, who are you going with, when will you be back and will you call me to let me know what's going on?" One's protective the other is obsessive. I'm not trying to say you're doing one or the other, just making sure you can see there's a difference between them. A lot of people, more so with young, emotionally inexperienced, have a hard time telling them apart.

    The whole "it's not you, it's them" thing is utter crap. I know, I used that myself when I was 15..lol. I really didn't like my girlfriend hanging out with this one guy and that's how I justified it in my head. However, part of trusting someone your with in a relationship is trusting their judgement with those they hand around with. When you insist you don't like her hanging out with someone, you're questioning that. In different words, you're basically saying "I don't think you're able to handle yourself". This attitude does not work in any lasting relationship that you haven't seen on Jerry Springer.

    That's a good first step, but if you expect the relationship to work, you need to totally let go of even this. If she wants to hang out with someone, you can't let it cause any problems in your relationship. You come off looking like a jackass.

    The rule of thumb is "once a lush, always a lush". Your first big fight together, guess who's hittin' the bottle? If this is something you feel is going to be a problem, you need to be an adult about it and leave. Don't expect this to go away if you feel it to be a problem. If nothing else, trust me on this one. I speak from experence.

    Oh man, you DO NOT want to stop her from being "overly-touchy" with anyone. She will resent you for it. People like this enjoy the company of other people. The tend to use touch to make themselves feel more connected to those around them. When you cut them off from this, not only do you look like a jealous fool, but you instantly become the source of their personal discomfort. I know this because I have this exact same type of personallity. I've very touchy. I like to hug my friends, I touch strangers, I lean on people and let others do the same with me. It's about being able to express yourself. I was with a girl for almost a year when she tried to tell me I couldn't do that. Needless to say, we lasted another 2 weeks.

    This is something you'll have to etiher deal with or find someone who does not act this way. If you force a change, your relationship will suffer.

    Anyhow, just my thoughts. Please don't take any of it personally. :hs:

    (please forgive any spelling or grammar errors. I typed this up as quickly as I could..lol)
     
  12. JordanClarkson

    JordanClarkson OT Supporter

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    When you're 50 you're going to regret not going for that 3some :eek4: Relax and enjoy your life
     
  13. mo_dingo

    mo_dingo Guest

    Simply put, you are trying to change her. This practice is definately "controlling".

    Is it a bad thing? Just depends on the circumstances.

    The one universal truth in dating is that you cannot expect people to change. Once they have developed a habit, lifestyle, etc, it's not likely to change. When you try to change something, the other party can definately get the feeling that they are being manipulated/controlled.

    The next universal truth is that people need to change to fit the person they are dating, if they want it to last. They cannot go about their usual routine once they are commited; Things change and they need to adapt.

    If the person doesn't want to change, then it's time to say farewell. If they are open to the idea, then work with the person. Don't get mad when you catch them doing it, don't say anything at all! Only compliment them when they DON'T do it. This is positive reinforcement, and it works well. If you start to yell/whine/scream when they do it, they are getting the attention that they want, and it will continue.

    I think you need to talk with you, g/f, and see if there are some things you do/say/etc that bother her. Then use this as a comprimise, which is a good idea.

    Are you a naturally worryfull person? If you are, then it's something she has to get used to, because you cannot change that about yourself. It's too deep within yourself to remove. But if you only worry about her, you are being controlling, and you need to let go. You worrying about her will not accomplish a single thing, except increase your stress level.

    It takes a lot to make a relationship work, and you should talk things through now, before it's too late. Don't put this off; It's too important.
    Scott
     
  14. ZeeMox

    ZeeMox Opinions are like assholes. Fuck em. OT Supporter

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    :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
     
  15. ZeeMox

    ZeeMox Opinions are like assholes. Fuck em. OT Supporter

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    Thanks for all the input Juvenall. I won't take any personally, I see what you're saying. I guess I have a few things to change, but the only thing I do disagree with is the touchiness thing. We've been together a year, and that hasn't been a problem since the first couple of months, but she wouldn't just be touchy - she would be very touchy. I don't mean anything like crotch groping, but when you walk into a movie theatre and find your gf in some other guy's arms, it raises questions. There were just too many things that were beyond the casual hugging and flirting line. The reason she got so many stalkers was because she'd inadvertently convince guys they were dating by being so touchy, which hurt them, and in turn hurt us when they would make a lot of trouble.

    It's another example of the kind of thing she didn't understand then, but does now. She actually got annoyed when some commonly flirty girl from our workplace (where we met) came up and hugged me. This was about 3 months in. So now she's not overly touchy because she knows that bothers her too. It's one of the complications of this being her first big relationship.

    Regardless, I do have some things to work on related to the other stuff you said. I guess I should relax a little bit.


    mo_dingo - I also like what you said. It sounds like a much healthier way to aproach the situation. And actually, I've never worried about previous gf's near as much before. You have to believe it to see it - but she's got to be one of the worst drivers I've ever seen, and she has no common sense at all (again, she's extremely intelligent, just needs a little bit of wisdom in there). One time we had a guest over, and he left the gas stove going on high, but didn't check to see if it actually lit. When I smelled the gas, we went downstairs to check, and sure enough - it's been on for about half an hour like that. She reaches to turn it off, which almost made me crap my pants. Between the "off" part of the dial and the intensity variations was the "Lite" setting (and yes it is spelled like that on the stove). If she'd turned it off, there was a good chance the whole house would have gone up in flames.

    Instead we put it on low and opened all the windows, then turned it off later. But you get the idea. She also tried to jump out of a moving car at 35 mph once during a bad fight. I explained to her that killing herself was a pretty bad way to try and end a fight, and she insisted that it wouldn't have even hurt. I was like :eek4: - I'm pretty sure that would have at least broken an arm or two, depending on how she landed, and assuming she avoided the back tire.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2005
  16. chica&buddies

    chica&buddies Active Member

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    :werd: i agreed with pretty much everything you said.

    imo, you're being controlling and i wouldn't date you, but too each their own. :dunno: then again, i'm overly independent.
     
  17. ZeeMox

    ZeeMox Opinions are like assholes. Fuck em. OT Supporter

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    I guess you have to also take into account that how I handle the relationship also depends on the girl. Past girls I've been with were completely different. One turned psychotic and obsessive herself, and stalked me for several months after I left her - that relationship didn't have too many healthy elements to it at all.

    A different one involved a manic depressive. I actually didn't have ANY of these problems with her. If I had seen nothing but complete trustworthiness from my current gf, that's all I would have for her. I'm not naturally untrusting in relationships, because I never get into a relationship with anyone I don't already trust initially. The manic depressive girl sabotaged the relationship while in one of her "stages" though, so I'm deffinitely not saying that was perfect.
     
  18. Juvenall

    Juvenall What Would Juvie Do?

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    To be fair, it is very much a case by case thing. If you think this girl is prone to be a cheater, then I can fully understand some concern. Even more so if she's cheated on you before.

    I guess the biggest thing here is that you need to understand that if she's going to cheat, there's NOTHING you can do about it. It'll happen if you treat her like gold or a pile of dirt. It's about the personallity of the person.

    :hs:
     
  19. ZeeMox

    ZeeMox Opinions are like assholes. Fuck em. OT Supporter

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    It's not so much thinking that she'll cheat, but just seeing her THAT close to the guys. When you're so close to people that practically everyone thinks you're dating them, you obviously need to step it down a notch. It's really my own problem - I find it hard to watch. If it was just hugs, shoves, mildly flirty stuff like that, I wouldn't care. It's the hanging on everyone and being in these guys' arms and whatnot that gets to me. Just a personality type. Judging by how you say you're touchy as well, I assume you probably don't see where I'm coming from as easily, since that was her affliction as well. Best I can explain it though.
     
  20. chica&buddies

    chica&buddies Active Member

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    :confused: i guess i'm confused... what do past relationships have anything to do with a different relationship and a different girl? everyone is different.

    imo, you're trying to justify your behavior a little too much, which makes me believe that you, too, think that you're going over the line...
     
  21. ZeeMox

    ZeeMox Opinions are like assholes. Fuck em. OT Supporter

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    Well I did just say that I should probably cool down a bit. I already talked to her and said I'm going to stop worrying so much and just let life happen. Then I met her at a mcdonald's later that night, and as we're both driving to work (she's in front of me) she goes flying through a red left turn light on a busy street.

    When we got there I was like "Alright, I'm making an effort on this not worrying thing, but wtf was that?"

    She goes "I ran a red light?"

    :uh:
     
  22. Juvenall

    Juvenall What Would Juvie Do?

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    See, I do totally know where you're coming from. I was once the exact same way you are.

    When I was 15, I was with this girl, Jessica. We were together for a little over 2 years. When we first started dating, she was a very free spirt. In fact, she quite often did exactly what you describe. I'd see her laying down on other people, walking down the halls with her arm around them and other things you don't expect to see. While I trusted her and after a conversation I had with her, I understood it was just her being open, it would still get under my skin EVERY time I saw it. Hell, there were times where I'd be right there and she'd do it in front of me. That's the worst.

    After about a year into the relationship, I basically changed over night. Maybe something just snapped or my true inner self poked its head. Either way, I finally understood. When you act like that around other people, they tend to become more open with you. You build stronger friendships and more of them. That's when I started acting the same way she had been and I've never looked back.

    I think a lot of what you need to do if you expect this to work in the long term, is to come to terms with your own jealous nature. It seems to me that you're in the same mindset I once was. You see her doing whatever with someone else and it just eats at you like "Why is she doing that with someone else? Arn't we the ones dating?". It's a hard habbit to break man, but once you do, you'll have far more rewarding relationships.

    If this is something you would really rather not "get over", then you may need to resign yourself to the fact that this relationship just may not work. She is who she is, nothing you do can change that. You may be able to stop her, but that will QUICKLY turn into resentment and *poof*..end of relationship.
     
  23. Juvenall

    Juvenall What Would Juvie Do?

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    :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

    ..ok, now THAT'S something to worry about.:mamoru:
     
  24. ZeeMox

    ZeeMox Opinions are like assholes. Fuck em. OT Supporter

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    Hm, I see. Like I said, later on she got it when she got upset with some chick hugging me out of the blue, so I assume if I started mimicking her at THIS point, it would do more damage than good, but that's deffinitely good advice for the future.

    I haven't seen traces of resentment yet, but if I do in the future I guess it'll just mean it's all messed up already. I'll deffinitely work on it though. Just posted here because I needed some other opinions, since I really don't have anyone to talk to around here. Northeastern Kansas is a wealthy, stingy place. Don't care too much for the money-worshipping mindset of the folk here.

    ... at least I have teh interweb :o
     
  25. Isolt78

    Isolt78 Guest

    I think #1 might be a bit oppressive, but you're not being over-jealous with the other ones. You seem to think she's worth keeping around, so just take things slowly.
     

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