GUN AR guys - opinion on LMT?

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Thumper, Nov 1, 2007.

  1. Thumper

    Thumper OT Supporter

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    What do the knowledgeable AR guys here think of LMT?

    I am trying to learn as much as possible about ARs but still feel overwhelmed at points. I was thinking buying complete out of the box (Colt 6920, RRA Elite CAR A4 have both caught my eye) but a lot of the talk on here has me thinking buying the pieces and putting it together myself might be the better choice. I have seen a lot of good comments on Stag and in my research constantly see LMT coming up.

    So what says OT? About any of the ones mentioned. Money is not a huge concern but I don't need to piss it away either. I will not go crazy accessorizing it but will no doubt put an EOTech and maybe a light on it. I am not LEO or mil, so my life will not depend on this unless the SHF or the zombies rise up.

    Thanks from an AR NOOB
     
  2. 993kgt

    993kgt building an airplane whee

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  3. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    I actually think any of the big names are going to be generally fine. Stag is probably the best bang for your buck out of them.
     
  4. Jimmy Pop Cornholio

    Jimmy Pop Cornholio forsakenisanidiot.info

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    $$ is right. Why not go with Stag or CMMG? I personally love CMMG, I have 2 of theirs.
     
  5. McCroskey

    McCroskey Jonny, what can you make out of this? OT Supporter

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    For a first AR buying out of the box isn't a bad idea. Building a lower is pretty
    easy, I've never taken part in building an upper, but I know it requires more
    specialized tools/equipment.

    I have a 16" RRA that I love, bought it complete out of the box and have
    tinkered with it a bit.
     
  6. Dumbstixlars

    Dumbstixlars Ron Paul/AR-15/Glock/old car/Scooby/R/C croo OT Supporter

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    Built this one for about $750 (bought complete lower, then a complete upper), if you buy a stripped receiver and buy a rifle kit from del-ton, you can get away with cheaper.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Jimmy Pop Cornholio

    Jimmy Pop Cornholio forsakenisanidiot.info

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    What brand upper/lower?
     
  8. Dumbstixlars

    Dumbstixlars Ron Paul/AR-15/Glock/old car/Scooby/R/C croo OT Supporter

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    Oops, sorry about that. Stag upper and lower.
     
  9. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    colt makes the best products, LMT is #2.

    you'll pay A LOT more for them, but to some its worth it. for your average consumer CMMG, stag, RRA are all fine brands.
     
  10. THT

    THT The easy way is always mined

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    LaRue Stealth billet upper > *

    Anyhow, LMT is good stuff. If I had an unlimited budget, I'd buy a LaRue Stealth, Daniel Defense Omega (once they build a 9") rail, Operator barrel, and Denny's Super Duty BCG for my upper.
     
  11. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    If you have never built an AR, and don't have the tools to do so, the cost savings you would see goes away when you have a smith put it together for you. If you have a friend who has the tools AND the knowledge to help you build it, it's a good option.

    However, if you plan on taking any quality rifle classes, frankenguns typically handle the work less reliably than a complete factory rifle. That is not to say that you can't build a really reliable rifle from parts- it's just tougher. You have to be able to diagnose problems, and get them worked out before you go to a class. I've never had a problem with my rifle at a class, aside from blowing it up, and it was a frankengun. All my future rifles will be frankenguns.

    If this is your first AR period, I'd suggest buying a complete rifle from a reputable manufacturer. S&W, Sabre Defense, Colt ($$$), LMT ($$$), and Bushmaster are a few major ones.
     
  12. KNYTE

    KNYTE I'm Not Kidding.

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    Go CMMG or Stag.

    LMT & Cult are overpriced and generally overrated.
     
  13. Thumper

    Thumper OT Supporter

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    Thanks for all the input.

    How hard is building the lower? I don't think I would try to build an upper on my own, but have read that building a lower is not that difficult. I have not read the guide on AR15.com yet so I guess I need to do that. So I was figuring on buying a complete upper and a stripped lower then a RRA or Stag parts kit.

    Does that even sound like it would be worth it or would it just make more sense to buy something already put together?

    Thanks again.
     
  14. Clusive

    Clusive Happiness is a belt-fed weapon.

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    The last one I built was around $750 total:
    Stag lower
    RRA LPK/Buttstock
    RRA CAR A4 upper
    RRA stand alone rear sight.
     
  15. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    they're "overpriced" for a reason ;)

    also, noveske is the shit
     
  16. KNYTE

    KNYTE I'm Not Kidding.

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    That reason being?
     
  17. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    better quality :dunno: like i said, the average consumer either wouldn't be ale to tell the difference, or wouldn't want to spend more for what they offer.
     
  18. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    So what is the actual better quality with them?

    If you don't still eat play dough you can put together a lower.
     
  19. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    i dont know the specifics but im sure theres a bunch of information out there you can find regarding differences.

    and wtf lower comment :ugh2:
     
  20. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    If you're going to claim they are higher quality I think you should be able to explain why.

    I thought the comment was self explanitory. He asked how hard it was to put together a lower. Anyone without a helmet on can do it.
     
  21. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    im not going to have a pissing match about colt or other brands because frankly i do not know enough about them, their manufacturing process, or how they exceed in quality. i do know that with these brands, you DO pay for what you get.
     
  22. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    taken from m4carbine.net:

    http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=8572

    Why YOU should buy a Colt or LMT.
    Well, honestly there are a few other options, but these two are at the top of a short list.

    I keep noticing threads devoted to what's wrong with a given rifle, or how to get a given rifle to work right, or what rifle is most likely not going to puke on you as soon as another rifle, and what rifle can I save 4.95 on?

    These are not the questions to be asking about something this important.

    Would you select you wife based on the criteria that she is almost as good looking as someone else, almost cooks as well, only has one eye, has most of her hair, and who needs genitalia anyway?

    How about that diamond ring. Is any woman going to love her SO because the ring isn't too yellow, is almost not quite too far from flawless, is close enough to 1/4 carat, and is set in a pink plastic band? Hell no. (At least mine wasn't.)

    So this post is to you, the prospective buyer, the new entry into the AR world. I have absolutely nothing to gain by giving you this free advice. Sure, I have friends that sell some of these items, but they also sell other items, and if you asked them, they would give you the same advice. The information here is worth more than the 18 year old pimple factory working the counter at Gander Mountain. We know more than your buddies in the America's Army Forum. We are instructors, owners, competitors, police, military, and active civilians. We know our shit, and we want to help you.

    Here's the deal-

    If you are buying a complete rifle (16" carbine barrel, flat-top receiver, collapsable stock), there are a few good options.

    1- Colt LE6920 (like the military M4) or 6520 (thin, lightweight barrel, but integral A2 sights, not flat-top)
    2- LMT standard 16" carbine
    3- ADS (Sold by G&R Tactical but not listed on website last I checked, just e-mail him or find him in the dealer threads)
    4- Sabre Defense XR15A3 M4 Carbine
    5- Smith and Wesson M&P 15
    6- Noveske Rifleworks N4 Light

    These are weapons that are designed and built to work. Simply owning one alone will not make you a Jedi. It will, however, reduce issues. The Noveske's are the most expensive, but are very high quality pieces of equipment. The basic version of the N4 is very close to the price of the others, and is of exceptional quality. The ADS probably represent the best value, but only if through G&R, as they will take care of a few issues before they ever get to your FFL. Colt will have odd pins in the lower receiver, but the overall rifle is of superb quality. Colts are a bit expensive with some dealers, and can be difficult to find locally. You will probably wind up buying over the internet. The LMT is my personal favorite, as it will be of the same general quality as the Colt, but will have standard pins in the FCG, and costs a little less. The S&W offering is a new release, and is standing up well. There were some issues with the first ones out, but those have been ironed out. S&W offers good value on the market.

    Buying a complete rifle is actually going to cost you more money that if you bought and upper and lower seperately and pushed the pins yourself. This option opens up a bit of grey area and personal preference.

    You can go the not too expensive and reliable way or the expensive and reliable way. I don't believe in any other way than reliable.

    Most lower receivers are good to go, frankly it's pretty hard to f these up. So here is a list of lower receivers to AVOID

    Olympic
    Hesse
    Vulcan
    (frownie faces included to alert casual skimmers that they are BAD)

    Really, when choosing a lower it is more of a matter of what you want/will accept on the roll mark and what accessories you can get with it. So what accessories are a good thing?

    Buffer. If you have a 16" or shorter barrel, you should have either an H or H2 buffer in your receiver extension (buffer tube).
    Grip, buttstock, trigger, etc.- Almost all personal preference. Try them out before you order them.

    Complete Upper Receivers-

    Colt
    LMT
    Sabre
    Noveske
    LaRue

    For your basic platform the Sabre, LMT, and Colt are your best choices. LMT is a little behind Colt here as Colt uppers are pretty much f-ing perfect. LMT has had some issues with barrel-nut torque (too much, so not a big deal to the average user). The Noveske and LaRue uppers are just a tad short of magical, well into the orgasmic range. You will pay a lot for these, but they will be delivered to you completely finished (all the accessories you want) and worth exactly what you paid.

    Now, as barrel length changes and more variables are introduced, some other manufacturers and distributors come into play, but if you stick to these basic guidelines, you will do very well in your firearm selection.

    Now, you are going to have to do some more reading. Start here:
    Knowledge Base Threads by GotM4
    Technical Discussion by SHIVAN
    Comparison Chart of Major AR Brands by rob s

    This will get you into the game and out on the range smoothly. Good luck, and happy shooting.


    PS- If you do not see the carbine you want/love/own on my list, it is simply because I do not personally recommend that model/brand. If you own one and love it, super. However my recomendations come from personal experience or from people I trust with verifiable data and experience.
     
  23. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    comparison chart of major AR brands:

    also taken from m4carbine.net http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642

    [​IMG]

    as you can see, there are reasons why they're more expensive, but the average consumer will not notice or need them.
     
  24. Dumbstixlars

    Dumbstixlars Ron Paul/AR-15/Glock/old car/Scooby/R/C croo OT Supporter

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    Check it out.

    http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782
     
  25. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    I thought the s&w line was rebranded stag so I'd be interested to see if that information is actually right and they use a different bcg than stag. Past that I don't think you can call things like twist rate quality or the carrier being full auto as quality issues. It confirms that vulcan/hesse/olympic were bad choices but we already knew that.

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=243382 is a similar list of things to look for.
     

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